Helo landing on taxiway

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JRitt

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JRitt
Sat. I was flying out of KCKV. I was on the taxiway to depart 35 when I hear on CTAF a helo on left base for 35 paralell runway. There is only (1) runway that is 35 except that once in a while they mow the grass next to it and use it for soft field work and all patterns for 17/35 are to the east (Ft Campbell is on the west) so the pattern should have been right traffic. There was another plane coming in on 35 at the same time (right traffic). The helo turned base and announced final for 35 taxiway (I was on it). We both continued down the taxiway towards each other with him desending untill we were about 100yds apart when I asked his intensions and if he was going to land in front of us or behind us. He said " I stated my intensions twice already". He hovered about 100yds in front of us and 100ft high for about 10-15 seconds then moved about 75 feet to our right to let us pass. Are there special rules that allow Helo to land on taxiways and have priority on them or did I just run into (almost) a jerk. About 30min earlier the same pilot was running above the taxiway about 60feet back, the same altitude and parelell to a Cessna 150 taking off from 35 for most of the legnth of 35 (6000ft). Should I just report this to the school or also the FSDO.
 
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JRitt said:
Sat. I was flying out of KCKV. I was on the taxiway to depart 35 when I hear on CTAF a helo on left base for 35 paralell runway. There is only (1) runway that is 35 except that once in a while they mow the grass next to it and use it for soft field work and all patterns for 17/35 are to the east (Ft Campbell is on the west) so the pattern should have been right traffic. There was another plane coming in on 35 at the same time (right traffic). The helo turned base and announced final for 35 taxiway (I was on it). We both continued down the taxiway towards each other with him desending untill we were about 100yds apart when I asked his intensions and if he was going to land in front of us or behind us. He said " I stated my intensions twice already". He hovered about 100yds in front of us and 100ft high for about 10-15 seconds then moved about 75 feet to our right to let us pass. Are there special rules that allow Helo to land on taxiways and have priority on them or did I just run into (almost) a jerk. About 30min earlier the same pilot was running above the taxiway about 60feet back, the same altitude and parelell to a Cessna 150 taking off from 35 for most of the legnth of 35 (6000ft). Should I just report this to the school or also the FSDO.
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We can pretty much land anywhere we want, nor is there any requirement to fly a pattern or to make either right or left traffic if we do fly one (the only requirement is to avoid impeding the flow of fixed wing traffic). Having said that, if I'm going for a taxiway and there's traffic on it, I'll sidestep over to the grass or a ramp to avoid it, or possibly land long so as to fly over the traffic (I don't think that's particularly safe, though).

I'll let the guys who know the regs better decide whether a rotorcraft landing on a taxiway has priority or not. I personally don't allow a conflict to occur.

FYI, at towered fields, even class B airports, ATC will almost always let me land wherever I request. If they have a ground conflict they occasionally will clear me for a taxiway. I don't recall ever being asked to change frequency to ground. If you listen carefully to initial call ups BTW, youre likely to hear something like: "Helicopter 12345 is 12 to the southeast, one thousand, inbound for the xyz ramp with kilo.
 
Are there special rules that allow Helo to land on taxiways and have priority on them or did I just run into (almost) a jerk.
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I don't know the helicopter rules. My guess is the latter part of your statement is true.

There is a medivac helicopter that parks right down the ramp from where my plane is tied down. He is a lot more considerate than the one you describe. He approaches from the same side of the airport where he parks. I have never seen him conflict with any traffic.
 
I talked to the instructor that was on the helo today. and he expalined that (as Bob said) They can land pretty much anywhere they want. I also let him know that a fixed wing pilot does not expect someone to call to land on the taxiway and that after he heard us call that we were crossing runway 05/23 on the taxiway for 35 if he would have come on the radio and asked us to stop so he could use the taxiway we would have. I said " Just let me know what you want me to do and I'll do it" ALL is good.
 
We have a guy with a jet Ranger on our field. He comes in on a midfield crosswind, across the runway and the taxiway and up to his hangar. But he is on the radio a lot explaining what he is doing and pauses for fixed wing traffic. No problems at all.

We also get a blackhawk from the Army a lot and he does 'non-standard' stuff but is on the radio. So it is not a problem.

I think the key between fixed and rotor traffic is good comms and then all is well.
 
Talking to the instructor was a very good idea. Your point that fixed wing pilot don't always know what to expect from helicopters is a very good one.

I took an old friend flying last Fall. He is a fixed wing CFI/II and I think it was beneficial for him to see what I was doing and explain why I was doing it. He told me it helped to understand the strange things we do.

The problem is that many of the things we do, especially in training, look either senseless or insane if you're not a helicopter pilot, but are perfectly normal to us. Maybe this will help:

Quartering tailwinds are a real problem for helicopters, as are strong x-winds, because we may not have enough tail rotor authority to keep the ship straight. So we do (what to us is) the obvious, to choose an approach which lets us land into the wind. This approach may bear no relation to runway orientation, may keep us on one side of a runway or might have us crossing a runway to land. The approach might also be at an angle to a runway or taxiway. So I guess the lesson is to expect that we might want to land into the wind, especially if it's strong.

The second point is we may or may not make use of taxiways to taxi. For example, if I am landing at my home airport and planning to use the runway, I will come to a hover opposite the hangar row where our helicopters live. There is no intersection there, so I'll do a pedal turn to point myself into the hangar row and then taxi across the grass to the ramp. Or if I'm going to park by the FBO, I might come to a hover opposite where I want to park, and then side step (fly sideways) over the grass to the edge of the ramp.

You may also see us do an air taxi, which is a fast (20-30 kt) flight at maybe 10' or so, generally across grass to get from point A to point B quickly. Occasionally, a tower will request an air taxi if they need you to get of the way of incoming traffic or something.

I hope this helps explains why we do some of the seemingly crazy things we do.
 
[SIZE=-1]From the AOPA member section regarding helicopter operations.

"Let's review FAR Part 91, General Operating and Flight Rules. FAR 91.126 says, 'Each person operating an aircraft to or from an airport in a Class G airspace must, in the case of an airplane approaching to land, make all turns of that airplane to the left,...' And in the case of a helicopter, 'Each pilot of a helicopter must avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft.'"

In general, helicopters are to avoid the flow of fixed-wing traffic. In controlled airspace, faster helicopters may be added to the flow by the controller, but, in general, they are given a separate areas to land: taxiway, ramp, etc. When I flew rotary, I was prepared to land anywhere on the field directed if controlled. If uncontrolled, I mainly tried to stay out of the way of the fixed wind guys and keep my rotor wash away from them. You seem to have run into someone that was both rude and unfamiliar with the rules.

Think of your options when taxiing: forward, maybe a three sixty or turn off. A hovering helo has myriad alternatives. No way he should box you in like that.

Best,

Dave
[/SIZE]
 
Sounds like you found one of those helo guys that honestly believes that they are more important that the fixed wingers.

While communication from either of you earlier could have helped, I would say that the helo, landing somewhere other than a runway, should give way to an airplane on a taxiway (which was designed and put there to support taxi operations).
 
Dave Siciliano said:
[SIZE=-1]From the AOPA member section regarding helicopter operations.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]"Let's review FAR Part 91, General Operating and Flight Rules. FAR 91.126 says, 'Each person operating an aircraft to or from an airport in a Class G airspace must, in the case of an airplane approaching to land, make all turns of that airplane to the left,...' And in the case of a helicopter, 'Each pilot of a helicopter must avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft.'"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]In general, helicopters are to avoid the flow of fixed-wing traffic. In controlled airspace, faster helicopters may be added to the flow by the controller, but, in general, they are given a separate areas to land: taxiway, ramp, etc. When I flew rotary, I was prepared to land anywhere on the field directed if controlled. If uncontrolled, I mainly tried to stay out of the way of the fixed wind guys and keep my rotor wash away from them. You seem to have run into someone that was both rude and unfamiliar with the rules.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Think of your options when taxiing: forward, maybe a three sixty or turn off. A hovering helo has myriad alternatives. No way he should box you in like that. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Best,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Dave[/SIZE]
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91.126 as it applies to helicopters would dictate that the helo remain clear of fixed wing aircraft on the taxiway as well as in the pattern.

Jay
 
Nobody has really mentioned the vortexes from a helo yet. Having seen those vortexes I hesitate to be near them except when their rotors are not producing lift.
 
smigaldi said:
Nobody has really mentioned the vortexes from a helo yet. Having seen those vortexes I hesitate to be near them except when their rotors are not producing lift.
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Scott, I don't know anything special about the rotor tip vortices, except that a) they interfere with the production of lift below ETL (for example in a hover), and b) they're responsible for the blade "slaping" sound on a descent.

What you want to be careful of is the rotor wash -- it can damage a fixed wing and possibly cause a light plane like a J3 Cub to flip. The larger the helicopter the more rotor wash. It can even cause problems for the ship that's generating it in certain kinds of confined space.
 
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