Helicopter pilot charged with illegally landing chopper in public street

ausrere said:
Tommy Lee, your ride is here.

Helicopter pilot charged with illegally landing chopper in public street to pick up rocker Tommy Lee.
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A buddy of mine once landed on a beach in September with a happy birthday sign for his girl friend. We were all very suprised. Probable not a much as the county cop who was there also. He was lucky, nothing happen....
 
Troy Whistman said:
The article says he was "charged with landing an aircraft without a permit." I'm gonna have to find out where to get my permit, I guess.
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I think they mean one issued as a result of a city or county ordinance. Lots of cities and counties have ordinances against off airport landings.
 
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ausrere said:
I think they mean one issued as a result of a city or county ordinance. Lots of city and county's have ordinances against off airport landings.
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His problem is that he landed on a public street which would require permission from the locals to do so. Had it been a private street, and he had permission, federal law would trump state and local law.
 
I thought this constitution thing we had going on said that federal laws always trump state laws always trump local laws?
 
tonycondon said:
I thought this constitution thing we had going on said that federal laws always trump state laws always trump local laws?
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They would except he landed on public property, not private property. IOW's if the pilot landed on private property with permission, and a local law enforcement official attempted to cite the pilot, federal laws would trump the local laws.
 
ah so the constitution only applies on private property, i get it....
 
tonycondon said:
I thought this constitution thing we had going on said that federal laws always trump state laws always trump local laws?
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They would if there was a Federal law that allowed you land wherever you want, whenever want. As there isn't, there is nothing to for you to trump with.
 
ya i know richard, just wishful thinking i guess.

But there is no federal law saying i CANT land wherever,whenever :)
 
Quick lesson on Federal Supremacy...

Essentially, the locals can't regulate activity that is already Federally regulated. Thus, a city can't ban overflights by aircraft at altitudes explicitly permitted by Federal regulations. OTOH, the FAR's are silent on where you are permitted or not permitted to land. Therefore, local laws may be passed on the subject of landings on public property. Further, aviation activity on even private property may be regulated by zoning ordinances, as has been done in parts of the Baltimore MD metro area, where the landing of private helos even on private property in residential areas is forbidden unless a zoning variance is obtained (not always easy to do).
 
Ron Levy said:
Quick lesson on Federal Supremacy...

Essentially, the locals can't regulate activity that is already Federally regulated. Thus, a city can't ban overflights by aircraft at altitudes explicitly permitted by Federal regulations. OTOH, the FAR's are silent on where you are permitted or not permitted to land. Therefore, local laws may be passed on the subject of landings on public property. Further, aviation activity on even private property may be regulated by zoning ordinances, as has been done in parts of the Baltimore MD metro area, where the landing of private helos even on private property in residential areas is forbidden unless a zoning variance is obtained (not always easy to do).
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That's why you don't land. You just hover - and then declare an emergency! :D
 
N2212R said:
That's why you don't land. You just hover - and then declare an emergency! :D
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There you go -- just do a hovering auto -- good practice :yes:

I met a pilot about a year ago who said he landed by the Modena VOR near here. The locals tried to charge him, he told them to call the Philly FSDO, who told the cops that it was perfectly legal to land on FAA property.
 
I guess at least when I land off field, I can claim it was a forced landing and I had no choice, which is pretty much a true story.
 
tonycondon said:
I thought this constitution thing we had going on said that federal laws always trump state laws always trump local laws?
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In general, federal law does not always trump state laws. There are delineations of who has the right to make laws for certain things. Federal preemption may not always apply. There was a little 'discussion' on this in the 19th century about state's rights and federal preemption. That helped clear up some of the issue but not all.

The 10th amendment to the Constitution states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

In this case since there was also no interstate commerce involved then the state may be trying to insert their rights in this matter. Clearly there are questions here that only a legal expert will be able to answer.
 
Ya i sometimes get off in this fantasy land where the Feds regulate aviation. I found it interesting that AOPA used this argument when some states were trying to require background checks and multiple locks for aircraft access, but wont extend it to anything else.
 
tonycondon said:
Ya i sometimes get off in this fantasy land where the Feds regulate aviation. I found it interesting that AOPA used this argument when some states were trying to require background checks and multiple locks for aircraft access, but wont extend it to anything else.
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yep it is strange.

It is clear that the FAA is reponsible for ensureing that planes are airworthy and they issue registration and certificates for that. But in my state I also have to pay the state an annual fee to register my aircraft.
 
oh dont even get me started on that Scott, I got to pay a fee to the state for "state aviation infrastructure" which basically amounts to the state giving money for some light repaving, new hangars, and AWOS's at some airports. Since I pretty much only use airports for takeoffs now and hardly use the radio for anything other than telling my crew where im going to land at, it just disgusts me to have to spend it. Plus the "use tax" which I can slightly understand cause its basically a sales tax, but they could at least just call it that. ugh. And if you dont pay it, they will track you down. Thankfully the president of our glider club is an Assistant State Attorney General cause we had forgotten about it when we bought a new glider about 3 yrs ago. Well the penalties stack up high and we woulda been in rough shape if he hadnt talked em out of it.
 
Ron Levy said:
Quick lesson on Federal Supremacy...

Essentially, the locals can't regulate activity that is already Federally regulated. Thus, a city can't ban overflights by aircraft at altitudes explicitly permitted by Federal regulations. OTOH, the FAR's are silent on where you are permitted or not permitted to land. Therefore, local laws may be passed on the subject of landings on public property. Further, aviation activity on even private property may be regulated by zoning ordinances, as has been done in parts of the Baltimore MD metro area, where the landing of private helos even on private property in residential areas is forbidden unless a zoning variance is obtained (not always easy to do).
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Yes, the Rite Aid example..
 
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