Gusting winds

N6958H

N6958H

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
20
Location
Steele,mo
Display Name
Display name:
N6958H
Hi all! I have 5.6 hours of solo time and 26 hours total. I have this issue with the wind that seems to be hampering my training. I want to show good judgement and show I have have the ability to make wise decisions as a pilot but I think I have created a monster.

Before I fly I check the weather, if the wind is not exactly in my favor I have doubts, it can even be straight down the runway and still I have doubts. It's getting to the point that when I take off and get above the ground I spend a lot of time wondering if the winds will pick up or change direction not favorable to my runway. When my instructor was in the right seat it never crossed my mind for obvious reasons I guess but it's becoming a problem I would like to solve.

Has anyone delt with this and figured out a way to overcome the issue or currently dealing with it? I love flying and won't let this stop me. I would just like to squash it before my Xc trips so I can focus on the task at hand and not worry about my little problem as much.
 
Practice, practice, practice. Get flying time with a steadily increasing cross wind. Stick with it, you'll be fine. Slowly expand your personal limits to that of the limits of the aircraft you are flying. If you have doubts, get the CFI back in the right seat.

Yes, I have had those same feelings and anxieties. Kill the fear with demonstrated ability and performing and practicing the skill that scares you the most.
 
Last edited:
Geico266 said:
Practice, practice, practice. Get flying time with a steadily increasing cross wind. Stick wih it, you'll be fine. Slowly expand your personal limits to that of ththe aircraft you are flying. If you have doubts, get the CFI back in the right seat.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

just remember...when in doubt...go around
 
Gusting crosswinds are the toughest element to get an handle on. With your experience level it is a good sign that you recognize the danger and are looking for solutions. We have all been there, and handling gusty winds never becomes routine. The above advice seems dead on to me. Practice is the only way to get a feel and the "eye" for this constantly changing judgement call. You'll get it.
 
You need to get in the airplane with your instructor and seek out a crosswind runway. The field I practice at has 90 degree runways so if there is a wind then I can land on a crosswind runway. Get out there and practice!

You need to develop the confidence that you:

1. Know how to handle the airplane in different winds and:
2. Can do it.

Theory and practice.

Learn the theory and all it takes is practice.

Get out of your head and into the airplane!!
 
Threefingeredjack said:
Gusting crosswinds are the toughest element to get an handle on. With your experience level it is a good sign that you recognize the danger and are looking for solutions. We have all been there, and handling gusty winds never becomes routine. The above advice seems dead on to me. Practice is the only way to get a feel and the "eye" for this constantly changing judgement call. You'll get it.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The fact that the O.P. recognizes his limitations means that he's a cut above a lot of pilots at that stage. The rule is simple: With practice comes proficiency, and with proficiency comes confidence.

And you can't get those two things out of order. Of the pilots I've known who have gotten themselves into trouble, it's usually because of false confidence that came before proficiency.
 
N6958H said:
Hi all! I have 5.6 hours of solo time and 26 hours total.
Click to expand...
I'm just a couple hours behind you.
N6958H said:
Before I fly I check the weather, if the wind is not exactly in my favor I have doubts, it can even be straight down the runway and still I have doubts. It's getting to the point that when I take off and get above the ground I spend a lot of time wondering if the winds will pick up or change direction not favorable to my runway.
Click to expand...
So what doubts would you have with a light wind straight down the runway? As for the other... if you have two radios, keep one tuned to the AWOS if you're worried about it. I can't really see the wind sock when I'm on approach, but I've gotten a decent "feel" for the wind based on crab angle, ground speed, etc. If you can't fly with a pretty good amount of wind you're not going to fly much at all around here, so I just had to learn to deal with it.

The morning I did my solo the AWOS said winds were calm. My CFI said we'd use rwy 12, since that's the default calm runway (points you toward less populated areas). As it turns out, there was more than a couple of knots wind from about 310, so we landed with a tail wind. I could definitely tell the difference on final -- but the landing was totally uneventful. Now that I've done a downwind landing I don't worry about it any more. I wouldn't want to do it with more than a few kt of tail wind, though... but I think I'd definitely notice it on final, go around and land the other way if I encountered it again.
N6958H said:
Has anyone delt with this and figured out a way to overcome the issue or currently dealing with it? I love flying and won't let this stop me. I would just like to squash it before my Xc trips so I can focus on the task at hand and not worry about my little problem as much.
Click to expand...
Sure, what Geico said. Practice, practice, practice. I'm actually finding it better to practice without the instructor. The other morning I actually had my first "total solo" flight -- did the whole thing on my own. I did a few laps around the pattern landing in a light crosswind, and I was able to make some mistakes (and correct them) without my CFI chiming in. I actually got my slip down pretty well, the last few approaches were rock steady and dead on, all the way to the flare. Then after a trip out to the practice area (ground reference, VOR nav, and just generally enjoying flying) I did a couple more when I got back. MY biggest fear is getting lost. I get up in the air and once I get out of town, it's all just farm fields. How the hell do I know where I am? So I did a mini flight plan. 300 degrees until I see Hwy 92, follow it west for 8 min @ 110 MPH, should see the town of Mead. Turn south, do my practice maneuvers. Head due east and look for the lake by my house, if i can't find it I have the Omaha VOR tuned and I know which radial to intercept to take me back to the field.

Figure out what scares you. Go do it, and keep doing it until it doesn't scare you any more.
 
DaleB said:
... MY biggest fear is getting lost. I get up in the air and once I get out of town, it's all just farm fields. How the hell do I know where I am? So I did a mini flight plan. 300 degrees until I see Hwy 92, follow it west for 8 min @ 110 MPH, should see the town of Mead. Turn south, do my practice maneuvers. Head due east and look for the lake by my house, if i can't find it I have the Omaha VOR tuned and I know which radial to intercept to take me to the field.
Click to expand...

You have the right idea but take it a bit further. I fly over the Everglades with nothing in the way of nav equipment in the Luscombe, no VOR, nothing. Is it not "all just farm fields" any more than it is "all just grass". I looked at the sectional and Google satellite for the area you describe and there is plenty out there for you to learn in the way of pilotage. River, roads, creeks, towers. You start with basic dead reckoning and a simple "Kentucky windage" WCA (no need for the E6) and start picking out landmarks off the sectional; I should see that road intersection at 7 minutes out, etc. Ex, flew 04FA to X01 at 2000' Thursday evening with a friend that wanted a ride in the Lusombe. I knew my heading, my landmarks, but most importantly, I knew that I was not going to see civilization for about 40 minutes so I did not sweat looking for it. It is great fun.

And, of course, when we got there there was a 15 kt crosswind almost direct for runway 33. Got it down, not as pretty as I would have liked but no big deal :D

Practice.
 
Last edited:
The only way to raise your personal minimums is with practice. Don't get too aggressive, especially while still a student pilot.

I was getting close to soloing my taildragger and was starting to get just a little cocky. There was a variable crosswind one morning and as the instructor and I looked at the wind sock I said that I thought I could handle it. He said, okay and we mounted up.

I headed down the runway and a gust caught the tail and really swerved me off the center stripe such that the instructor had to gather it back up. Although I have several hundred landings since that time, my PPL, and higher minimums, I still get as much practice as I can. I can't think of anything besides practice that can improve your ability to deal with crosswinds or any other landing obstacle.

Practice, practice, practice...............

Stay with it and keep us posted.
 
DaleB said:
MY biggest fear is getting lost. I get up in the air and once I get out of town, it's all just farm fields. How the hell do I know where I am?
Click to expand...

Put a mark and the time on the chart every time you pass a town, river, intersection, highway, powerline, lake, etc. Something every 2 or 3 minutes. That way you can't be more than 2 or 3 minutes "lost" and you should be able to pinpoint your position within a finger width on the chart at any time. (Use your fingers as dividers).
 
N6958H said:
Hi all! I have 5.6 hours of solo time and 26 hours total. I have this issue with the wind that seems to be hampering my training. ... Before I fly I check the weather, if the wind is not exactly in my favor I have doubts ...

Has anyone delt with this and figured out a way to overcome the issue or currently dealing with it? I love flying and won't let this stop me. I would just like to squash it before my Xc trips so I can focus on the task at hand and not worry about my little problem as much.
Click to expand...

You'll feel better with experience, pass your PPL and it'll STILL rear its ugly head:lol: .... only later when you own your AC it'll be, "Damn head-wind is killing my flight time at $6 a gallon" converting your scenario to constantly checking winds aloft wishing for those great 20-40 kt tailwinds at 10,500 to 11,500
 
Hi N6958H.

I am just south of you, down at West Memphis. Good to have other PoA'ers in the area.

As far as the wind, the best advice I can give you it to keep flying the airplane, even when you get on the ground. It seems it is always windy around here, although not as bad as some of the folks farther west. To fly when you want, you need to get comfortable with flying in winds. As some have already said, just get out and fly when it is windy and learn how to deal with it. Most CFI's would not want a solo student flying solo when the winds get up too much (I have seen signs at flight schools saying how windy it can be and students still fly, seems like something like 8 or 10 kts) but you can still go with your CFI. No matter your experience, it is still good to have a very healthy respect for mother nature.
 
Having backup plans eases the mind too. I fly off a strip that ALWAYS has a crosswind.. it was laid out due to the terrain and not for the prevailing winds. When I was at your stage, I always knew that I could go 15-20 miles either direction and find either a better situation with the winds or worst case head to the 9,500'x150' wide rwy at KMSO with an X-Wind runway too, having that much asphalt around at my disposal was always reassuring.

As far as gusy crosswinds go, I don't know a pilot that likes em. Just takes time and practice of wrestling the plane down in them to build confidence. I still don't like it. Sometimes another lap around the pattern is all that is needed to wait out the winds too.
 
Thanks for all of the replies, it's a huge help. I have a great CFI and I discussed my issue with him so we are going up next good x wind day to do some work. I'll put in as much work and effort as it takes. I love flying and the challenges that come with it.
 
somorris said:
Most CFI's would not want a solo student flying solo when the winds get up too much (I have seen signs at flight schools saying how windy it can be and students still fly, seems like something like 8 or 10 kts) but you can still go with your CFI. No matter your experience, it is still good to have a very healthy respect for mother nature.
Click to expand...

this happened to me today. It was 12G16 and the windsock was swinging 45* at times. Flew solo the last few lessons, but this one we went up together and after 1 go-around and 1 so-so landing we decided that I wasn't going alone today. Two more landings and we called it quits. .7 on the Hobbs. The practice was good, but it wasn't worth battling the winds (not at this point in my training).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
N6958H said:
Hi all! I have 5.6 hours of solo time and 26 hours total. I have this issue with the wind that seems to be hampering my training. I want to show good judgement and show I have have the ability to make wise decisions as a pilot but I think I have created a monster.

Before I fly I check the weather, if the wind is not exactly in my favor I have doubts, it can even be straight down the runway and still I have doubts. It's getting to the point that when I take off and get above the ground I spend a lot of time wondering if the winds will pick up or change direction not favorable to my runway. When my instructor was in the right seat it never crossed my mind for obvious reasons I guess but it's becoming a problem I would like to solve.

Has anyone delt with this and figured out a way to overcome the issue or currently dealing with it? I love flying and won't let this stop me. I would just like to squash it before my Xc trips so I can focus on the task at hand and not worry about my little problem as much.
Click to expand...

I've made this suggestion a number of times before but didn't see it on this thread. I'd highly suggest going out with a CFI and doing a bunch of low passes. On any given crosswind approach, you get around five seconds max of the key transition between descent and round-out. Low passes above a crosswind runway will give you more like 30 seconds to a minute of practice each pass, depending how long your runway is. It's a great way to get yourself comfortable with what it takes to deal with a crosswind.

DaleB said:
...MY biggest fear is getting lost. I get up in the air and once I get out of town, it's all just farm fields. How the hell do I know where I am? So I did a mini flight plan. 300 degrees until I see Hwy 92, follow it west for 8 min @ 110 MPH, should see the town of Mead. Turn south, do my practice maneuvers. Head due east and look for the lake by my house, if i can't find it I have the Omaha VOR tuned and I know which radial to intercept to take me back to the field.
Click to expand...

Do you have one of those fancy pantsy smart phones? Android, iPhone, whatever? If so, you have a gps wherever you go. You're only going to be high enough to be out of reception if you're above 8000 AGL or so. On my Android, there's a little blue arrow that shows me exactly where I am and where I'm going. If you get lost, there you go! Obviously not an excuse for not knowing where you are, but that's a way to get out of a bind if you find yourself in one.
 
jpower said:
Do you have one of those fancy pantsy smart phones? Android, iPhone, whatever? If so, you have a gps wherever you go. You're only going to be high enough to be out of reception if you're above 8000 AGL or so. On my Android, there's a little blue arrow that shows me exactly where I am and where I'm going. If you get lost, there you go! Obviously not an excuse for not knowing where you are, but that's a way to get out of a bind if you find yourself in one.
Click to expand...
A valid point, and yes, I do. However, as a student pilot I do what I tell drivers to do ... keep it out of reach while flying.

I've come to believe it's really a non-issue for me -- the getting lost thing. I've had several occasions when flying with my instructor that I had absolutely no clue where the hell we were. In fact, one time he didn't either -- until we got a call from OMA approach, politely asking if we really wanted to be any closer to the nuke plant. We'd been doing emergency procedures and unusual attitudes.

BUT... when flying on my own I seem to have no trouble keeping track of exactly where I am, and on any X/C I'd be using VOR in addition to the sectional. The 172 I'll be using starting tomorrow has a panel mounted Garmin 396, and the 182 and Arrow are 430 and 430W equipped.

I still suck at spotting airports, but I'm working on it.
 
DaleB said:
A valid point, and yes, I do. However, as a student pilot I do what I tell drivers to do ... keep it out of reach while flying.

I've come to believe it's really a non-issue for me -- the getting lost thing. I've had several occasions when flying with my instructor that I had absolutely no clue where the hell we were. In fact, one time he didn't either -- until we got a call from OMA approach, politely asking if we really wanted to be any closer to the nuke plant. We'd been doing emergency procedures and unusual attitudes.

BUT... when flying on my own I seem to have no trouble keeping track of exactly where I am, and on any X/C I'd be using VOR in addition to the sectional. The 172 I'll be using starting tomorrow has a panel mounted Garmin 396, and the 182 and Arrow are 430 and 430W equipped.

I still suck at spotting airports, but I'm working on it.
Click to expand...
Airports buried within city, like Millard, can be tough no matter how many hours you have.

In Nebraska, and much of the midwest:
- Don't look for a runway, look for something different then everything else
- Almost all the airports in the rural midwest are surrounded by grass. Look for grass where grass doesn't otherwise make sense. We don't waste land out here. We plow it and we plant.
-Once you spot some grass. Now start looking for some buildings that are of decent size and batched together.
-Once you have the above NOW look for the runway. Also look for the parallel taxiway if there is one.

Always look at the sectional in relation to the city. Look on the sectional for other hints like highways, railroad tracks, and bodies of water. The key is to narrow down WHERE you need to look.
 
DaleB said:
...

I still suck at spotting airports, but I'm working on it.
Click to expand...

Yes, it takes practice. I am still working on it, too. My tips:

  • As mentioned, it is easier to spot hangar-sized buildings than runways.
  • In a built-up urban area, the airport could be the open area.
  • Stay high. Easier to find the airport at 3000' AGL than 1000' AGL.
  • Overfly the airport. If talking to tower or approach, ask them to let you overfly the airport.
  • Study the sectional for landmarks near the airport and landmarks that let you know you missed it and need to turn back.
  • Call ATC if you can't find it and just ask for a vector and distance.
  • Say "student pilot" :D
 
Last edited:
jesse said:
Airports buried within city, like Millard, can be tough no matter how many hours you have.

In Nebraska, and much of the midwest:
- Don't look for a runway, look for something different then everything else
- Almost all the airports in the rural midwest are surrounded by grass. Look for grass where grass doesn't otherwise make sense. We don't waste land out here. We plow it and we plant.
-Once you spot some grass. Now start looking for some buildings that are of decent size and batched together.
-Once you have the above NOW look for the runway. Also look for the parallel taxiway if there is one.

Always look at the sectional in relation to the city. Look on the sectional for other hints like highways, railroad tracks, and bodies of water. The key is to narrow down WHERE you need to look.
Click to expand...
Part of it, I think, has been "expectation". For instance... we'd be inbound to OMA from Blair. We're about 10-12 miles out and my instructor says, "OK, I have the runway in sight." I look where I *know* Eppley should be... I do see a vast expanse of "flat", but basically nothing else. I'm expecting to see concrete, and I don't. What I think now is that I was expecting to see the runways, but couldn't... although I did see the airport. I knew generally where it should be, and in that direction I saw a big, flat, open area with no buildings. Had we been flying with a sectional I'd have been able to verify by looking at the position relative to the river and other land features. By the time we were 5-6 miles out I could clearly identify it as Eppley.

Millard is a bear to spot. It's down in a hole and even the hangars don't look all that different from the surrounding area (industrial on one side, self storage on the other). Blair was easier, since there was nothing around for a couple of miles. Wahoo just stuck out like a big red flag. Maybe I'll have an easier time flying X/C when I'm not looking for Millard all the time.
 
DaleB said:
Millard is a bear to spot. It's down in a hole and even the hangars don't look all that different from the surrounding area (industrial on one side, self storage on the other). Blair was easier, since there was nothing around for a couple of miles. Wahoo just stuck out like a big red flag. Maybe I'll have an easier time flying X/C when I'm not looking for Millard all the time.
Click to expand...

It just takes practice. Coming in to X51 from the Everglades, I usually mistake the same farm for the field. The farm is also on the other side of the canal, has a similar pattern of open area, roads=runways, and buildings when seen from a distance and is slightly closer so comes into view first. But when I get closer and see it is not X51 then I know the field is just to the north. So a common mistake can be as good a landmark as any.

Don't go crazy looking for the airport. Airports are hard to see. Look for the landmarks that are easy to see. If I were coming into KMLE for the west, I would be looking for a very distinctive pattern of lakes and highways and know where the airport is in relationship to those. I always include Google satellite in my preflight planning.
 
DaleB said:
Had we been flying with a sectional I'd have been able to verify by looking at the position relative to the river and other land features.
Click to expand...

(Sound of record scratching...)

Huh?

Are you regularly flying without a chart?

:nono:
 
Well, I rely on my eye-thingies for navigation also. But I have sectional open on my knee. :D
 
denverpilot said:
(Sound of record scratching...)

Huh?

Are you regularly flying without a chart?

:nono:
Click to expand...
No. And in fact I did have a current Omaha sectional in the plane, but it was in my flight bag behind the seat. It was a dual instruction flight about 4 or 5 hours into my training, and we were in a regularly used training area. I was kind of relying on the CFI to keep track of where we were.

I don't fly without a sectional in the kneeboard now, unless I'm just staying in the pattern.
 
Not that this will make you feel any better, but I've gotten turned around between two airports 2.5m apart (though not for very long). I write it up to "it happens", and try to have better location awareness on subsequent flights.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top