Grumman Tiger engine cost

J

Jester

Filing Flight Plan
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Jester
Just wondering what the costs are for a new or factory reman on an 0-360A4K engine vs cost to overhaul.
 
As I understand it, a regular overhauled engine is 29. I paid 35 for a zero-hour 360-AK4 engine for my AA5B.
 
Can I assume that these prices include removal, replacement, and all other labor & small-part charges? I'm still a long ways away, but plan to get there eventually (hopefully later, and not sooner).
 
Minshall said:
Can I assume that these prices include removal, replacement, and all other labor & small-part charges? I'm still a long ways away, but plan to get there eventually (hopefully later, and not sooner).
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I believe you can. Advertised overhaul costs for the Lycoming O-360-A4K that goes in a Tiger run from about $16K to $22K. Note that what get for the varying amounts varies -- you may find the cheaper ones aren't all you want. Add to that the cost of removal, reinstallation, and cleaning up the firewall forward accessories, and you're in the $20-25K range.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Ron, got a reputable shop in mind?
 
Just did mine...I was on the upper end due to corrosion on the crankshaft and a replacement Airbox. Mine was $27 with R/R...without Airbox and Crank it would have been close to $21K.
 
Jester said:
Thanks for all the replies. Ron, got a reputable shop in mind?
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Are you willing to spend top dollar for a "Swiss watch" job? Call Bill Scott at Precision Engine in Owensboro KY. Want a high quality job for a bit less money? Lycon and Penn Yan come to mind. Going the more economical route but not "bargain basement"? Try Othman Rashad's Triad Engines in Burlington NC.
 
Ron Levy said:
Are you willing to spend top dollar for a "Swiss watch" job? Call Bill Scott at Precision Engine in Owensboro KY. Want a high quality job for a bit less money? Lycon and Penn Yan come to mind. Going the more economical route but not "bargain basement"? Try Othman Rashad's Triad Engines in Burlington NC.
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If you don't want to pay those shops overhead/insurance/shipping/and profit, get an A&P that can read a overhaul manual and have them do it in your hangar.
 
Tom-D said:
If you don't want to pay those shops overhead/insurance/shipping/and profit, get an A&P that can read a overhaul manual and have them do it in your hangar.
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We have a guy down the road with a good rep, Carlus Gann in Lafayette, GA. Our flying club had good success with his rebuilds. Anyone heard of him?
 
Jester, I did an unexpected major 4 years ago after a valve lifter failed. One of the questions I asked each shop when I called was whether they test ran the engine before returning it.

At the time neither Charlie's shop (don't know that I talked to Charlie, just someone who answered the phone there) nor Carlus (did talk to him) said they would test run the engine. My mechanic was pushing for Carlus, but admitted another of his recent overhauls had oil leaks after installation.

The owner had to fly the plane up to Lafayette (about an hour) and leave it to be repaired. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

I went with a shop that answered all the questions and DID test run the engine. - TriStates Airmotive in Berryville, Arkansas.
 
Tom-D said:
If you don't want to pay those shops overhead/insurance/shipping/and profit, get an A&P that can read a overhaul manual and have them do it in your hangar.
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No specialized tools, no warranty, no test stand, no equipment for overhauling cylinders, etc, etc, etc. Not happening on my engine, and not a recommendation I'd ever make. But you will get it cheap -- if that's how you want it.
 
Ron Levy said:
No specialized tools, no warranty, no test stand, no equipment for overhauling cylinders, etc, etc, etc. Not happening on my engine, and not a recommendation I'd ever make. But you will get it cheap -- if that's how you want it.
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There are only a few specialized tools you need, some of the work can be farmed out to a good machine shop and everyone uses new cylinders anyway.
 
dell30rb said:
There are only a few specialized tools you need, some of the work can be farmed out to a good machine shop and everyone uses new cylinders anyway.
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Good luck -- you're going to need it. And if you farm out all the real work, you're not going to save much money anyway. Personally, if I get a heart transplant, it's going to be in a heart specialist medical facility with all the fancy equipment, not in my primary care physician's office.
 
Ron Levy said:
Good luck -- you're going to need it. And if you farm out all the real work, you're not going to save much money anyway. Personally, if I get a heart transplant, it's going to be in a heart specialist medical facility with all the fancy equipment, not in my primary care physician's office.
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I do see the value in having a specialized shop do the overhaul, comes with a warranty and everything.
 
Ron Levy said:
No specialized tools, no warranty, no test stand, no equipment for overhauling cylinders, etc, etc, etc. Not happening on my engine, and not a recommendation I'd ever make. But you will get it cheap -- if that's how you want it.
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I'm glad that you guys with the fat wallets can afford to do it that way, but there are a hell of a lot of folks flying on A&P built field overhauls.

Some of the best engine rebuilders send their machine work out to places like Chuck Ney Enterprises and Aircraft Specialities and no body makes their own bearing sets so in the end, you'll be flying the same engine no matter who bolts it together or does the machine work because they all must follow the book.
Where did you get the idea that the A&P in the field doesn't have test facilities?
 
dell30rb said:
I do see the value in having a specialized shop do the overhaul, comes with a warranty and everything.
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Would you really like to pay for the removal of the engine twice to send it back to the facility that overhauled it/ and wait the shipping time both ways?
 
dell30rb said:
I do see the value in having a specialized shop do the overhaul, comes with a warranty and everything.
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Warranty is just another cost, and another "spread the risk". Do you buy the extended warranty when you go to Best Buy and purchase a TV? Do you buy the extended warranty when you buy a used car?


It has to do with each person's risk tolerance and their own ability to "self-fund". Warranties, generally, and collectively, aren't worth paying for. Individually, and specifically, they can save your bacon.
 
EdLarkin said:
Jester, I did an unexpected major 4 years ago after a valve lifter failed. One of the questions I asked each shop when I called was whether they test ran the engine before returning it.

At the time neither Charlie's shop (don't know that I talked to Charlie, just someone who answered the phone there) nor Carlus (did talk to him) said they would test run the engine. My mechanic was pushing for Carlus, but admitted another of his recent overhauls had oil leaks after installation.

The owner had to fly the plane up to Lafayette (about an hour) and leave it to be repaired. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

I went with a shop that answered all the questions and DID test run the engine. - TriStates Airmotive in Berryville, Arkansas.
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No one at Zephyr would state that an engine being overhauled would not be test run. It is required by the engine overhaul manual so no ne can return an engine to service overhauled without test running it. We test run all engines that have had the case split even if only for a repair. Charlie Melot
 
Had zephyr do my lycoming in my arrow. Was very pleased with the work and the service and support from Charlie
 
Btw, there's a new listing for a 91 Tiger that just popped up on controllers.com. The engine is nearly ran out but they are asking in the $40Ks.
 
Changed out my AA5B engine many years ago. Had the A&P push the airplane back in my hangar so I could do all of the firewall forward "work" myself. Took the time to clean up and repaint the battery box, dress wiring, painted the firewall, sent the engine frame out for new powder coat paint. Came out beautiful.
 
I know two who sent their engines to zephyr in Florida. Mooney and arrow. Both were very pleased with service, warranty, etc. it has an excellent reputation. Ron seems to be right.
 
spdracer888 said:
Btw, there's a new listing for a 91 Tiger that just popped up on controllers.com. The engine is nearly ran out but they are asking in the $40Ks.
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That's the plane that got me thinking about all this.
 
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charlie said:
We get just under $21K with new Lycoming cylinders and a new cam. Charlie Melot Zephyr Engines
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That's actually a pretty good deal. Considering that Charley pays the freight and gives new accessories.
 
I had Bill Scott do my Power-train assembly (firewall forward). She came back beautifully and runs like a swiss watch as Ron Levy put it...defiantly had a few admiring A&P's during last annual. Took some time, and cost a little more than Zephyr (my second choice)...but overall I had a really good dialogue with him and he is by far the best O-360-A4K/ Grumman knowledgeable engine overhauler out there. My baffling (both rubber and metal) looks amazing now and actually works. Plus I found out the previous few owners did a lot interesting work over the years to the pre-overhauled engine to include two quick oil drains and an oversized oil cooler (not STC'd for the AA5B) . Here is a picture of the end stages of build up.

Highly recommend if looking that direction.
 

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