Grass Strips and C-172's

[Skyhawk4754]

I have a C-172 straight tail with and O-300. I am looking for knowledge from people who have done some take off and landings on grass strips.

What would be and average length of runway for take offs? 3 sob and full fuel.

 

[Diana]

I have a C-172 straight tail with and O-300. I am looking for knowledge from people who have done some take off and landings on grass strips.

What would be and average length of runway for take offs? 3 sob and full fuel.

Hmmmmm. I guess that would depend on how big the people are and how strong the engine is, and the density altitude of a particular day.

I have flown into and out of this airfield in a 172M and an old straight tail with an O-300. I would only take 2 people out of this airstrip on either runway on a good day. But, the long runway here has a 20' foot ditch in the middle of it. And, I'm conservative and don't like to take chances.

 

[Diana]

I have a C-172 straight tail with and O-300. I am looking for knowledge from people who have done some take off and landings on grass strips.

What would be and average length of runway for take offs? 3 sob and full fuel.

AND, I have flown a 172M and an old straight tail 172 into our farm and will only take off with two sob here going downhill. We never take off from our farm (going downhill) with three sob. If that third person is necessary, we will fly to town to pick them up.

 

[tonycondon]

there are really too many variables to make any kind of determination. i once flew a 172 fairly lightly loaded (full fuel and 1.5 people) into and out of my uncles 1600ish foot grass strip, but there was good wind

 

[Diana]

there are really too many variables to make any kind of determination. i once flew a 172 fairly lightly loaded (full fuel and 1.5 people) into and out of my uncles 1600ish foot grass strip, but there was good wind

Yep, there are so many variables...wind, runway slope, height of grass, W&B, obstacles...it all depends.........

Is Leah the .5 person?

Tony, when are you coming to the farm?

 

[Skyhawk4754]

You guys must be night owls... I didn't post this until 11pm.

We live on a farm in sw MN and I have been thinking of putting in a runway at home. I can get a nw/se in at 2000' nothing to clear on the se end. We are on the Bufalo Ridge and always have some wind. about 2200 msl. It does have about a 3% slope to the se.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Will be looking forward to more comments and or tips on short feild to/landings.

 

[SCCutler]

I know it is not in Texas, but the attached is a great resource for people wanting to build farm/ranch strips, courtesy of Our Tax Dollars at Work. Occasionally, gummint does something worthwhile!

PS- Welcome to PoA, your front porch for flying.

/s/ Spike

 

[write-stuff]

Lightly loaded 172s (2 occupants, no baggage) seem to operate out of our 2400 grass strip without a problem except on really high density altitude days.

www.172guide.com

 

[tonycondon]

Yep, there are so many variables...wind, runway slope, height of grass, W&B, obstacles...it all depends.........

Is Leah the .5 person?

Tony, when are you coming to the farm?

yes, weightwise, leah is 1/2 a person.

ill get to the farm as soon as i can (like usual). maybe sometime this summer.

 

[Skyhawk4754]

Tony

You seem to one who would know about STOL kits for a c-172. What say you?

 

[tonycondon]

Tony

You seem to one who would know about STOL kits for a c-172. What say you?

the 172 that i flew into the 1600 foot strip had the STOL kit. Although I think that a stock 172 would've operated in and out of there just fine too. wind was blowing 25 knots on arrival and departure, and for takeoff and landing performance, you just cant beat wind.

 

[Unbeliever]

We never take off from our farm (going downhill) with three sob.

How about 2 SOBs and a really nice guy? *grin*

--Carlos V.

 

[Teller1900]

How about 2 SOBs and a really nice guy? *grin*

--Carlos V.

Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck

 

[Diana]

How about 2 SOBs and a really nice guy? *grin*

--Carlos V.

 

[jesse]

It depends how big your three people are. I've never flown a straight tail so I can only speak for (M , N , P , R and S). I would take a strong C172 with me and another person into 1500 ft grass given the following:

1.) Short grass
2.) Smooth grass
3.) No major obstacles
4.) Not extremely hot
5.) Midwest elevation

Add another person, or a fat person, or change any of the above elements, and the length will change. I consider myself a conservative pilot--so you could cut some distance off that easily depending on how brave you are.

My advice is to ignore everything in this thread along with the POH and go jump in the airplane with three people on a long strip to figure out how it will land and take off with YOU as the pilot. I can promise you that there are pilots that could easily operate in less distance than I. The airplane is not usually the limiting factor.

 

[Skyhawk4754]

It depends how big your three people are. I've never flown a straight tail so I can only speak for (M , N , P , R and S). I would take a strong C172 with me and another person into 1500 ft grass given the following:

1.) Short grass
2.) Smooth grass
3.) No major obstacles
4.) Not extremely hot
5.) Midwest elevation

Add another person, or a fat person, or change any of the above elements, and the length will change. I consider myself a conservative pilot--so you could cut some distance off that easily depending on how brave you are.

My advice is to ignore everything in this thread along with the POH and go jump in the airplane with three people on a long strip to figure out how it will land and take off with YOU as the pilot. I can promise you that there are pilots that could easily operate in less distance than I. The airplane is not usually the limiting factor.

Jessie

Thanks for your reply. I like the last paragragh. I understand it's hard to comment on some questions because you never know the abilities of the idividual asking.
I understand the words "short field" are relitive. What's short to you maybe really short to me. I don't have a Denalt Calculator so I ran the numbers long hand for Alt Density. We are @ 2200 msl, I ran the numbers up to 86 degrees F @ 2400lbs and it looks ok. A calm day around here is when the wind is 8-10mph. One advantage I have is nothing to clear on either end. There is alot of reading out there on flaps,stol kits etc.etc. but it is kind of nice to find a mentor who can give you some little tips along the way.
As you said ....at the end of the day, it comes down to practice on a long field and see what you come up with.

Thanks again

W.

 

[Ghery]

I understand the words "short field" are relitive. What's short to you maybe really short to me.

That is a very important point. We used to have someone hanging out on this board (HHMNBN) who thought that 3,000 feet was short. In a C-172. Paved runway. He hadn't experienced some of the runways a number of us have routinely operated out of. It can be a matter of perspective.

Now, about grass... I've been to a grass field once. And not since joining the club I belong to, as club rules prohibit operation from anything other than paved runways. A rule driven home a year or so ago by a member who violated it and had a prop strike. Oops. YMMV. But, Jesse's advice in his last paragraph sounds good to me.

 

[Diana]

Tony

You seem to one who would know about STOL kits for a c-172. What say you?

I had a STOL kit on a Cessna 150 Texas Taildragger. It was marginal on a hot day with a passenger going downhill at the farm. It struggled to clear the trees.

 

[Skyhawk4754]

I had a STOL kit on a Cessna 150 Texas Taildragger. It was marginal on a hot day with a passenger going downhill at the farm. It struggled to clear the trees.

Diana
I think I'm going to throw a new thread out there on STOL kits just to see what shows up. I have only talked to a few people but some swear by them and some think it doesn't make a difference.

W.

 

[gprellwitz]

Diana
I think I'm going to throw a new thread out there on STOL kits just to see what shows up. I have only talked to a few people but some swear by them and some think it doesn't make a difference.

W.

An ad for a retract 182 with STOL sent to me by a board member talked about the 36KT stall speed. It isn't going to make a difference in my day-to-day flying. Where it will come in would be an approach into an unimproved 6Y9 (though it's doable without the STOL), in a high altitude /mountainous situation, or in an emergency, where I want to have as little forward speed as possible to minimize passenger injuries.

 

[MauleSkinner]

We are @ 2200 msl, I ran the numbers up to 86 degrees F @ 2400lbs and it looks ok.

Remember the conditions that your POH uses for these numbers...even with the "add 10% for grass", or whatever the figure is, it's NOT considering soft field technique...it's pure short field. Leave the nosewheel on the ground to the proper speed, rotate at the proper speed to the proper attitude, and go flying.

One good rule of thumb that I've found handy is the 50/70 rule that the AIM talks about for halfway markers at unimproved strips, or something like that. If you have 70% of your LIFTOFF airspeed by the time you pass the 50% point of your strip, you should have enough runway to lift off. That works with soft field technique, too.

Note that this says nothing about obstacles (even corn, beans, or fencelines screw up this formula), nor does it give you any guarantees about aborting the takeoff from the halfway point.

That said, I've got a 1500-ft strip SW of RWF at my uncle's that coincidentally has a telephone junction box at the halfway point (see my avatar ) ...comes in real handy on those hot & heavy days.

Another good habit to get into is calculating your "book" takeoff distance for each takeoff, and comparing that to your actual takeoff distance (runway lights are 200 feet apart...have the other two sob's count 'em). You'll probably come up with a fairly consistent percentage difference. Gives you more confidence than a WAG for the given conditions on your strip.

I had a STOL kit on a Cessna 150 Texas Taildragger. It was marginal on a hot day with a passenger going downhill at the farm. It struggled to clear the trees.

I had a 150K with the Bolen conversion and a Horton STOL...biggest problem in getting off the ground was the flat attitude when on its wheels...coulda' really used another 6-8" of main gear leg. 25 degrees of flaps did wonders for my takeoff/obstacle distance.

Fly safe!

David

 

[N3368K]

I have a C-172 straight tail with and O-300. I am looking for knowledge from people who have done some take off and landings on grass strips.

What would be and average length of runway for take offs? 3 sob and full fuel.

There are many variables to consider.......density altitude, obstacles, climb or cruise prop, how many hours on engine (how strong is it), how big or small are the three souls, just to name a few. I routinely fly off a grass strip and the guy across the taxiway from me has a O-300 C-172 (slant tail fastback). He seems to get out of our strip well on a routine basis. The strip is 3100' with trees at both ends. He typically only flies with him and his wife on board and they are both small folks.

I'd fly off our old strip with three folks. It was 2000', but had no obstacles on either end. I don't think I'd fly a C-172 off our current 3100' strip with trees on both ends unless it was really cool/cold with a good wind down the runway.

Regards,

JimR

 

[Skyhawk4754]

Well today was the day. Went to and airfeild with a 2500' grass strip to give the old 172 her good ol college try. We had about 1 inch of rain yesterday and the grass strip was a little sogy however the wind was right and the day was sunny. 2 guys (465lbs) and full fuel. Put a marker out @ about 900'. We thought that would be a good place to call it go or no go and still have time to shut it down. At about 1250' we were up up ..... and away ...... now thats what I'm talking about!!!!! What a great day to be alive eh!!!!!!!!!!

Can't wait to get back there when it dries out a little, I think I could shave 150-200' off, just have to wait and see

Thanks again for all the replies, just wanted you to know we "gotter dun"