Grass Landings: How soft is too soft?

[Tristar]

I was recently sent a few pictures of a grass strip from my home town by one of the residents. This airpark is close to Gastons in the degree of turf quality although can have problems draining. Quite frustrating although it brings up a question. How soft is too soft?



This rut was created by a twin that had flown into the airpark after diverting from a heavy rain shower.



I can't quite figure this PIC's justification on continuing the landing. The airstrip is obviously marked with an X. A CFI and a student were on a practice flight out of a local class D when they decided to come here. The student saw the X and pointed it out to the CFI from which the CFI said not to worry and that he had been there before. As you can see, their wheels came within feet of the clearly marked X. He'll be given a bill for the damage.

Except for obvious distinctions such as puddles on the runway or even clearly marked Xs. Flying into a grass strip should be given some thought before barging in. What are some ideas to make grass landings a pleasurable experience? You obviously want to be carefull or not land at all if there has been a heavy rain storm. I've seen other helpfull ways such as getting opinions from others who have landed or walking the airstrip itself. I've also heard you can call some of the locals on the field. This airfeild inparticular shuts down after a heavy rain such as after a hurricane.

I also understand that some aircraft such as ultralights may fare better than a heavier aircraft such as a baron. Either way, ruining a runway is not the friendliest way to leave your "mark" on the aviation public.

 

[bbchien]

If the wheels of a Jeep Cherokee drip on the top after a drive of about 10 feet, it's too wet.

You need to be able to bicycle down the runway- that's my test.

In Maine, at Gaddabout Gaddis, a half brick was the tester. You leaned out the door, (TOWARD THE WET SIDE of the runway, not in the middle, stupid!), (watch the wheel struts!) and dropped the half brick. A Splash and you went away. If no splash, you landed retrieved your half brick.

 

[KennyFlys]

If the wheels of a Jeep Cherokee drip on the top after a drive of about 10 feet, it's too wet.

You need to be able to bicycle down the runway- that's my test.

In Maine, at Gaddabout Gaddis, a half brick was the tester. You leaned out the door, (TOWARD THE WET SIDE of the runway, not in the middle, stupid!), (watch the wheel struts!) and dropped the half brick. A Splash and you went away. If no splash, you landed retrieved your half brick.

How many half-bricks did you carry?

 

[Diana]

Flying into a grass strip should be given some thought before barging in. What are some ideas to make grass landings a pleasurable experience? You obviously want to be carefull or not land at all if there has been a heavy rain storm. I've seen other helpfull ways such as getting opinions from others who have landed or walking the airstrip itself. I've also heard you can call some of the locals on the field. This airfeild inparticular shuts down after a heavy rain such as after a hurricane.

You raise some good questions Tristan. Calling ahead is the best thing to do.

Our runways are always different depending on the amount of rain and the time of year. And the ditches leaving the runways are the worst part. We have had a nosedragger stuck in the mud in our ditch before because he didn't check on the conditions first. I've called an airplane on the radio that was on short final to our airfield before and told him NOT to land because it was too soft for his airplane.

Either way, ruining a runway is not the friendliest way to leave your "mark" on the aviation public.

Our runways are like sacred ground and we would NOT be happy if someone were to tear them up because someone didn't call us first to check on the conditions.

 

[AdamZ]

I suspect that this is why so many FBOs won't let their rentals land on grass.

 

[wabower]

Could that be accurately described as a half-acme approach to the problem?

If the wheels of a Jeep Cherokee drip on the top after a drive of about 10 feet, it's too wet.

You need to be able to bicycle down the runway- that's my test.

In Maine, at Gaddabout Gaddis, a half brick was the tester. You leaned out the door, (TOWARD THE WET SIDE of the runway, not in the middle, stupid!), (watch the wheel struts!) and dropped the half brick. A Splash and you went away. If no splash, you landed retrieved your half brick.

 

[wabower]

Even after the call and the assurance that it's dry and you're good to go, be careful and watch for soft spots. A friend ended up with a tear-down after such an event in Clinton, MO. The city airport runway was being repaved, so they made a deal with a crop duster to use his strip. Only one soft spot, over by the edge, on the way to the ramp . . .

.quote=Diana;344629]You raise some good questions Tristan. Calling ahead is the best thing to do

.

Our runways are always different depending on the amount of rain and the time of year. And the ditches leaving the runways are the worst part. We have had a nosedragger stuck in the mud in our ditch before because he didn't check on the conditions first. I've called an airplane on the radio that was on short final to our airfield before and told him NOT to land because it was too soft for his airplane.

Our runways are like sacred ground and we would NOT be happy if someone were to tear them up because someone didn't call us first to check on the conditions.[/quote]

 

[Tristar]

The brick method is a new one. Although if you did that often enough, you could probably pave the runway and solve the problem in the first place.

 

[docmirror]

The student saw the X and pointed it out to the CFI from which the CFI said not to worry and that he had been there before. As you can see, their wheels came within feet of the clearly marked X. He'll be given a bill for the damage.

Who gets the bill? Student or CFI?

 

[Tristar]

Florida has developed a warning system using color coded flags which describe how rough the water is. Green is "low hazard, calm conditions," Yellow "caution," Red "Hazardous," and the new purple "dangerous marine life." I would propose a similar system for at least the personal grass strips if not all of them that are watched on a daily basis. They could be shown next to the wind indicators. I'm sure with some thought, a good measurement of "hazard" could be invented. After all those flags are flown for all types including humans swimming all the way up to yachts which is very similar to grass strips and varying size aircraft. What do you think?

I think a yellow under a purple would be great for those geese at gastons.

 

[Ted]

I like the flagged waning system idea, only thing is that it would still require frequent updating, I'd say daily most of the time. You could have green (which would probably be pretty hard to see against a grass background), but then a heavy rain could come through causing the condition to get worse. My thought there is just that a warning system is only as good as the people putting up the warnings, and therefore the frequency with which they're updated.

The only grass strips I've landed at personally are ones that are in known condition as advertised by the owners/operators. Paved strips are significantly more of a known quantity, although if there's a big "X" on the runway, that tells me not to land unless it's an emergency. I'm not sure why people would choose to land at runways marked as such.

 

[ScottM]

You need to be able to bicycle down the runway- that's my test.

I had not thought of that before, not a bad idea. What type of bike though? A road bike with skinny tires or a 4" wide knobby? You'll get different results to be sure.

Earlier this year our grass runway appeared dry and good to go. But if you stood on it you realized that the grass was floating. It took until June before it was dry enough to safely land with even an ultralight. We did have a fly in and some planes taxied on the grass and they had problem trying to move as the ground was so soft.

 

[tonycondon]

thanks tristan. my ATP ride starts in an hour and a half. I blame this thread for nightmares last night of axle deep mud with the 421 and the examiner on board.

 

[Ted]

thanks tristan. my ATP ride starts in an hour and a half. I blame this thread for nightmares last night of axle deep mud with the 421 and the examiner on board.

I've said it before, but one last time:

Good luck!

 

[Skip Miller]

Who gets the bill? Student or CFI?

The owner of the aircraft. He'll sort it out from there. I believe that the PIC (i.e., the CFI) is ultimately liable, but it is a claim against the aircraft and its insurance carrier.

-Skip