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Danos

Danos

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
668
Location
New York City
Display Name
Display name:
i And I Survive
This one has LR Jet on it! Passed my checkride and have a bad case of sim poisoning. Can't wait to fly the real thing!
 
Congratulations!

First Jet TR? Did they put some language on it restricting you from acting as PIC until you get some IOE?

PS - You Suck.

Love, Tim
 
Thanks Tim! First TR! It's was an SIC. I didn't qualify for the PIC because I have about 700 tt and need an ATP for 135. Maybe within the next 2 years unless I fly like Ted :)
 
Danos said:
This one has LR Jet on it! Passed my checkride and have a bad case of sim poisoning. Can't wait to fly the real thing!
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Congrats!

Don't you need to do a takeoff and landing in the actual airplane before they'll issue the SIC type?
 
TMetzinger said:
Congratulations!

First Jet TR? Did they put some language on it restricting you from acting as PIC until you get some IOE?

PS - You Suck.

Love, Tim
Click to expand...


I guess he really DOES suck now... it's a jet and all! :D
 
Danos said:
Thanks Tim! First TR! It's was an SIC. I didn't qualify for the PIC because I have about 700 tt and need an ATP for 135. Maybe within the next 2 years unless I fly like Ted :)
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Is the ATP for 135 a requirement for PIC jet type ratings? To be PIC for 135 you need 1200 TT and some number of XC hours (forget the amount, but you're probably about there). I can see your company requiring the ATP, though, as well as more time before allowing PIC. As I just passed 1500, I'm now figuring it's time to go take the ATP written and then just turn a 135 checkride into an ATP. You should have 1500 within 2 years or so. ;)

When do they start you? That way I know when to chase you around in the Aztec and heckle you on the radio. :D
 
Danos said:
Thanks Tim! First TR! It's was an SIC. I didn't qualify for the PIC because I have about 700 tt and need an ATP for 135. Maybe within the next 2 years unless I fly like Ted :)
Click to expand...

Is the ATP for 135 a requirement for PIC jet type ratings? To be PIC for 135 you need 1200 TT and some number of XC hours (forget the amount, but you're probably about there). I can see your company requiring the ATP, though, as well as more time before allowing PIC. As I just passed 1500, I'm now figuring it's time to go take the ATP written and then just turn a 135 checkride into an ATP. You should have 1500 within 2 years or so. ;)

When do they start you? That way I know when to chase you around in the Aztec and heckle you on the radio. :D
 
I'm not sure if this answers your question, Ted, but you can take a 135 PIC checkride in a turbojet (or turbojet sim) even if you don't have an ATP. My sim partner a number of years ago was a guy who had more than 1,200 but less than 1,500 hours. At first the training provider said he could not take the PIC checkride because he didn't have an ATP and didn't have enough hours to test for it. Then they realized that someone can act as a Part 135 PIC in a turbojet without an ATP as long as they are not carrying passengers. Of course that would limit someone to freight.

§ 135.243 Pilot in command qualifications.

(a) No certificate holder may use a person, nor may any person serve, as pilot in command in passenger-carrying operations—

(1) Of a turbojet airplane, of an airplane having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember seat, of 10 seats or more, or of a multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119 of this chapter, unless that person holds an airline transport pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings and, if required, an appropriate type rating for that airplane.
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And heck... there's no requirement for an atp for a type rating at all. Folks have gotten learjet types with a private and instrument.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
 
TMetzinger said:
And heck... there's no requirement for an atp for a type rating at all. Folks have gotten learjet types with a private and instrument.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
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Correct - Travolta has the 707 type on his PPL.

Only thing about the type is that regardless of what level you hold, the checkride must be flown to ATP standards. You don't get any PPL fudge factor.
 
shenanigans said:
No, you can do them in an approved simulator.
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Is that just for the Lear?

I know that if you want to get an SIC type in the 737, you do the training and checkride in the sim, but before the FAA will issue the type on your certificate, you must log at least one takeoff and landing in the actual aircraft.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Is that just for the Lear?
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It's not just for the Lear and not just for SIC type ratings. You can get PIC type ratings exclusively in a simulator too. Sometimes the PIC type rating will have restrictions based on your experience, or lack of it, however.

Fearless Tower said:
I know that if you want to get an SIC type in the 737, you do the training and checkride in the sim, but before the FAA will issue the type on your certificate, you must log at least one takeoff and landing in the actual aircraft.
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It depends on the simulator. If it's a level C or D simulator the landings count just like landings in an airplane and you don't need to do any additional ones in the actual airplane.
 
Everskyward said:
It depends on the simulator. If it's a level C or D simulator the landings count just like landings in an airplane and you don't need to do any additional ones in the actual airplane.
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That's not what I have been told by the sim centers.

Here is one example - they use Level C and D sims:
http://www.skybluejetaviation.com/B737.html

Scroll down to the Graduatin and Course Completion section and you'll see what I am talking about. Other type rating schools have said the same thing.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That's not what I have been told by the sim centers.

Here is one example - they use Level C and D sims:
http://www.skybluejetaviation.com/B737.html

Scroll down to the Graduatin and Course Completion section and you'll see what I am talking about. Other type rating schools have said the same thing.
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I can't comment on that school but I can tell you that I have been issued three unrestricted jet PIC type ratings without ever landing the real airplane (I guess I did land the Lear before I ever went to school but not as a part of formal training).
 
Fearless Tower said:
That's not what I have been told by the sim centers.

Here is one example - they use Level C and D sims:
http://www.skybluejetaviation.com/B737.html

Scroll down to the Graduatin and Course Completion section and you'll see what I am talking about. Other type rating schools have said the same thing.
Click to expand...
I can't comment on that school but I can tell you that I have been issued two unrestricted jet PIC type ratings without ever landing the real airplane.
 
Everskyward said:
I can't comment on that school but I can tell you that I have been issued two unrestricted jet PIC type ratings without ever landing the real airplane.
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Did you have any SIC time in the aircraft before you went for the PIC type?

It isn't just that school - I've been told the same thing from K&S in Phoenix.
 
Mari is correct - it is the certification of the sim that determines what can be trained and checked and most type ratings are checked and issued with zero aircraft flight time. There is an exception with initial SIC applicants that request "SIC Privileges" added to their certificate for a particular type.

Read 61.55, very last paragraph.

(j) When an applicant for an initial second-in-command qualification for a particular type of aircraft receives all the training in a flight simulator, that applicant must satisfactorily complete one takeoff and one landing in an aircraft of the same type for which the qualification is sought. This requirement does not apply to an applicant who completes a proficiency check under part 121 or competency check under subpart K, part 91, part 125, or part 135 for the particular type of aircraft.

Edit: Sorry, forgot the most important part. Congrats Danos!!
 
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Laurie said:
Mari is correct - it is the certification of the sim that determines what can be trained and checked and most type ratings are checked and issued with zero aircraft flight time. There is an exception with initial SIC applicants that request "SIC Privileges" added to their certificate for a particular type.

Read 61.55, very last paragraph.

(j) When an applicant for an initial second-in-command qualification for a particular type of aircraft receives all the training in a flight simulator, that applicant must satisfactorily complete one takeoff and one landing in an aircraft of the same type for which the qualification is sought. This requirement does not apply to an applicant who completes a proficiency check under part 121 or competency check under subpart K, part 91, part 125, or part 135 for the particular type of aircraft.

Edit: Sorry, forgot the most important part. Congrats Danos!!
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Exactly, that is my point.

The initial SIC Type requires a takeoff and landing in the actual airplane. Danos stated that the type just received was an SIC, not PIC, so that was my question - if he hasn't actually flown the aircraft yet, how was he able to get the type? Not trying to detract from the accomplishement, just trying to figure out how it was done.
 
When I was looking at getting PIC type rating in a Jet, I was told that because it would be my first TR in a transport airplane and it was only done in a sim, I'd get the PIC TR (no such thing as an SIC TR then) but I'd have a limitation that I couldn't serve as PIC in the airplane until I'd gotten 25 hours of supervised operating experience, at which time I'd take that documentation to a FSDO and they'd remove the restriction.

All follow-on type ratings could be done in a sim, however.
 
My understanding was that Danos did get the type rating, not just SIC Privileges added to his commercial certificate as he said he passed his checkride and no check is required for SIC Privileges only. He is acting as SIC for his job, however as he does not meet PIC requirements for the company/operations.
 
Laurie said:
My understanding was that Danos did get the type rating, not just SIC Privileges added to his commercial certificate as he said he passed his checkride and no check is required for SIC Privileges only. He is acting as SIC for his job, however as he does not meet PIC requirements for the company/operations.
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That's as I undertand it, I wondered if they'd put the limitation language I'd mentioned above on it.
 
TMetzinger said:
When I was looking at getting PIC type rating in a Jet, I was told that because it would be my first TR in a transport airplane and it was only done in a sim, I'd get the PIC TR (no such thing as an SIC TR then) but I'd have a limitation that I couldn't serve as PIC in the airplane until I'd gotten 25 hours of supervised operating experience, at which time I'd take that documentation to a FSDO and they'd remove the restriction.

All follow-on type ratings could be done in a sim, however.
Click to expand...
This is what I remember too. There was a list of conditions which allowed you to avoid the limitation. This list was formerly part of 61.63 but I don't see it there anymore. Here is a link to an old copy of the FARs.

http://books.google.com/books?id=h0...AQ#v=onepage&q=limitation type rating&f=false
 
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