Goodbye Hog, Hello Penguin

[SkyHog]

Its official, I have now setup my Laptop to dual boot with Ubuntu Linux and Windows XP.

Its exciting. After like 15 years of mucking around with computers, I feel like I did when I was 10 years old, sitting in front of a computer, not knowing what the hell to do.

My first step: Figuring out how to get my cellphone to connect to the internet through my laptop. Mission accomplished.

Next step: figuring out how to set up a wireless ad-hoc network so we can play games at work. After setting up wine.

Good stuff. If I grasp this, the other partition with WinXP might just go away.

One note, one thing I don't like about Ubuntu (I may learn to like it) is not having direct access to root, and having to use the sudo command for everything. I know its more secure, but....I'm not running a server. I also know there is a way around it, but I'm gonna try to do this the way it was intended first.

 

[Bill]

Its official, I have now setup my Laptop to dual boot with Ubuntu Linux

Enjoy unix. Back when I was learning, my wise yoda mentor made two statements that helped me a lot:

1.) Unix was written by programmers for programmers.
2.) Unix assumes the operator knows what he is doing.

 

[SkyHog]

That will be another thing I mess with a bit too, Bill, learning the programming languages I already know but in Linux (since I am mostly an API programmer in VB, I assume that's all gonna change).

Another downside to Ubuntu: It sure does feel like a Mac.

 

[mikea]

Enjoy unix. Back when I was learning, my wise yoda mentor made two statements that helped me a lot:

1.) Unix was written by programmers for programmers.
2.) Unix assumes the operator knows what he is doing.

Unix is VERY user friendly. It's also very choosey about which users are its friends.

 

[SkyHog]

And....

This is officially my first post from within Linux. Yay! Sort of got the ad-hoc network going, but not the way I want it yet, so I still have some work to do there.

 

[wbarnhill]

Another downside to Ubuntu: It sure does feel like a Mac.

OS X is built off of BSD, so it will feel that way Not really a downside, more of an upside for Mac.

 

[SkyHog]

OS X is built off of BSD, so it will feel that way Not really a downside, more of an upside for Mac.

Heh. I was joking with a coworker. Said "Its got all the benefits of the Mac, without the unneccesary restrictions on third party hardware/software! Its a win/win!"

 

[jesse]

Heh. I was joking with a coworker. Said "Its got all the benefits of the Mac, without the unneccesary restrictions on third party hardware/software! Its a win/win!"

Type:

sudo su

in the console to switch to root...If you really want to get to root the old fashion way (ex. by typing su instead of sudo su)

do this:
1.) open console
2.) type sudo su
3.) now type passwd and set a password for root. done deal.

I'd reccomend you just get used to typing "sudo su" though..it makes the system much more secure. oh.. BTW.. please don't ever login to Gnome as root.

*IF* you really want to check something cool out nick..Take a look at this
http://www.vmware.com/products/server/

It's completey free now and you can actually run Windows within a window in linux. It's actually fairly fast and let's you fire up windows when you need to without rebooting the whole damn system. plus you can try out other linux distributions. I have Ubuntu installed at work on my desktop and was able to install Vmware with minimal issues. If I remember correct I had to install xinetd though.....Type apt-get install xinted in the console.
or just bring your laptop with this week and I'll get it setup for you

 

[mikea]

Type:

sudo su

in the console to switch to root...If you really want to get to root the old fashion way (ex. by typing su instead of sudo su)

do this:
1.) open console
2.) type sudo su
3.) now type passwd and set a password for root. done deal.

I'd reccomend you just get used to typing "sudo su" though..it makes the system much more secure. oh.. BTW.. please don't ever login to Gnome as root.

*IF* you really want to check something cool out nick..Take a look at this
http://www.vmware.com/products/server/

It's completey free now and you can actually run Windows within a window in linux. It's actually fairly fast and let's you fire up windows when you need to without rebooting the whole damn system. plus you can try out other linux distributions. I have Ubuntu installed at work on my desktop and was able to install Vmware with minimal issues. If I remember correct I had to install xinetd though.....Type apt-get install xinted in the console.
or just bring your laptop with this week and I'll get it setup for you

You can also

sudo /bin/sh

As always, there's more than one way to do it, although that's perl's motto.

VM are the coolness. I'm loving Parallels on the Macbook.

BTW, Nick, all of that open source software also comes in compiled-for-OSX versions. Lessee...I have LAME, VLC, Firefox, Thunderbird, NeoOffice J (OpenOffice in Java), Audacity...

So Macs have all of the goodness of Linux/Unix with a whole lot less of the "driver sorta works - need a volunteer to take on the project" fun.

 

[SkyHog]

Type:

sudo su

in the console to switch to root...If you really want to get to root the old fashion way (ex. by typing su instead of sudo su)

do this:
1.) open console
2.) type sudo su
3.) now type passwd and set a password for root. done deal.

I'd reccomend you just get used to typing "sudo su" though..it makes the system much more secure. oh.. BTW.. please don't ever login to Gnome as root.

*IF* you really want to check something cool out nick..Take a look at this
http://www.vmware.com/products/server/

It's completey free now and you can actually run Windows within a window in linux. It's actually fairly fast and let's you fire up windows when you need to without rebooting the whole damn system. plus you can try out other linux distributions. I have Ubuntu installed at work on my desktop and was able to install Vmware with minimal issues. If I remember correct I had to install xinetd though.....Type apt-get install xinted in the console.
or just bring your laptop with this week and I'll get it setup for you

I read those directions in the sudo manual, but I figure for now, I'll do it the way they suggest, until I get more experienced and get frustrated typing sudo.

Good think I know a lot of ftp commands, it helped me figure some stuff out. I'm kinda getting the hang of this a bit.

I'll definitely check out vmware. the apt-get install command is a bit weird, I'm still trying to grasp that.

 

[gkainz]

... Ubuntu: It sure does feel like a Mac.

Ya don't suppose that's because the "X" in Apple OS/X stands for "Unix"?

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I've downloaded and have been trying to install Suse Linux 10, but get an error part way through the install that is widely reported on the web, but no solution... sigh.

 

[jesse]

I read those directions in the sudo manual, but I figure for now, I'll do it the way they suggest, until I get more experienced and get frustrated typing sudo.

Good think I know a lot of ftp commands, it helped me figure some stuff out. I'm kinda getting the hang of this a bit.

I'll definitely check out vmware. the apt-get install command is a bit weird, I'm still trying to grasp that.

You will *LEARN* to *LOVE* apt-get. There are so many packages available that you can easily install...You do not have access to thousands of them by default though.

I can give you a run down on apt and whatnot when you come.

 

[kath]

I'd reccomend you just get used to typing "sudo su" though..it makes the system much more secure. oh.. BTW.. please don't ever login to Gnome as root.

Why not? Is there a security hole in Gnome or something?

Nick, I've got dual-boot Windows and RedHat on my laptop.... and I boot to the Windows partition about once every couple months at the most. Yar!

--Kath

 

[jesse]

Why not? Is there a security hole in Gnome or something?

No but you open up the possibility of a security hole. The less stuff running as root the better off you are. For example. Let's say that you login to Gnome as root and open up Firefox and start browsing the internet. There might be some flaw in firefox where a website can cause you to execute arbitrary code. Since you are root it can trash your entire system. If you were just a regular user it would only have access to your ~/ directory more or less.

Not only that if you are root you could have a poorly written script or application freak out and start to just trash your install. If you would have been as a user once again it would not have happend.

 

[jesse]

I've downloaded and have been trying to install Suse Linux 10, but get an error part way through the install that is widely reported on the web, but no solution... sigh.

http://www.ubuntulinux.com

 

[AdamZ]

Ugh I feel like such an idiot! I have no clue what you guys are talking about. I feel like I have become my parents and can't program my own VCR. Where do I learn this stuff.

 

[tonycondon]

oh dont worry Adam, you should hear these guys in chat every night about 11. I just ignore it.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

http://www.ubuntulinux.com

From those of you that have used both... which do you prefer, and why? Gnome or KDE?

What are the differences?

 

[mikea]

Ugh I feel like such an idiot! I have no clue what you guys are talking about. I feel like I have become my parents and can't program my own VCR. Where do I learn this stuff.

An old joke: "It's so easy a 13 year old can do it...Find me a 13 year old!"

 

[jesse]

From those of you that have used both... which do you prefer, and why? Gnome or KDE?

What are the differences?

If you are wanting a Linux distribution for the desktop there is only one answer. Ubuntu. It's that simple.

As far as Gnome vs. KDE ... It's all personal preference. I've been using gnome based distributions for the last two years. KDE isn't bad either but I haven't used it enough to really comment.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

If you are wanting a Linux distribution for the desktop there is only one answer. Ubuntu. It's that simple.

Prove it. Tell me WHY. Either way, it's just your opinion, but I want to know WHY you feel Ubuntu is the "only one answer". I've heard good things about Suse Linux too, despite my apparent lack of ability to install it... (going to try again tonight, that said!).

 

[gkainz]

and since Redhat is the officially supported Linux o/s by Oracle, why would I want to try Ubuntu or Suse?

 

[mikea]

and since Redhat is the officially supported Linux o/s by Oracle, why would I want to try Ubuntu or Suse?

Because you usually don't run Oracle on your desktop.

My experience with Suse is the installer either works or it doesn't . It nowhere near as good as other distros, especially Ubuntu or the Debian installer (which will be in beta for the usual 5 years) at discovering and using your hardware.

If you want to sample Debian, use the Knoppix DVD.

Ubuntu has actual Mark Shuttleworth cash behind it. They used the money to make a custom Gnome desktop that is the best going. http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop

Religion-wise, Gnome is GPL - free as in speech and as in beer. KDE is not, because it uses a non-open graphics tool kit (GTK).

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Ubuntu has actual Mark Shuttleworth cash behind it.

Never heard of him. Guess I need to google the name. As to the other thing you said, if they are using Mark's cash to send Free Beer to those that download and install Ubuntu, I'm in.

I got Suse 10 to install tonight; problem was my installation of Microsoft Virtual PC 2004 (ala VMWare), not Suse, and the way it handled a virtually mounted ISO image of the DVD-ROM.

 

[gkainz]

Because you usually don't run Oracle on your desktop.

Hmmm, nope! I have been running Oracle on my desktop for the last 10 years or more and and on my laptop for at least 5... not production systems, mind you, but live databases for development efforts or demos. So, the question remains, why not Red Hat over the others?

 

[jason]

Hmmm, nope! I have been running Oracle on my desktop for the last 10 years or more and and on my laptop for at least 5... not production systems, mind you, but live databases for development efforts or demos. So, the question remains, why not Red Hat over the others?

Well, your question can be answered in two parts.

1) if it's just for development, why pay for RedHat. Use Centos, which is the same thing (byte for byte)...only free.

2) if it is being used as a desktop system then people sometimes want a larger selection of packages than what Redhat provides. For instance, I for one would much rather use ReiserFS as my primary file system than the crap ext3. Try doing that with stock Redhat without compiling everything from source.

P.S. I have and continue to use Redhat for all production servers...but I just want more flexibility with my desktop system...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Ugh I feel like such an idiot! I have no clue what you guys are talking about. I feel like I have become my parents and can't program my own VCR. Where do I learn this stuff.

Try this.

I learned *nix as a college student, working in computer labs during the early days of the web. I mostly learned from fellow geeks over time... "Wow, how'd ya do that?" type of thing. So, I'm not sure I can help ya much.

The real trick is to learn a bit at a time, and use it. Some commands are similar to DOS, if you ever used that. Often, shells will have things like "dir" which are not UNIX commands aliased to "ls -Fsalg" which gives a very dir-like presentation.

Want to find a command? Use apropos. Want to know the specifics of a command? Use man. Don't understand the above? Try "man man" or "man apropos". Once you kind of get these basics, you can dig around and learn a lot on your own.

I'm kind of glad I have all the unix-y tools at my disposal under OS X... I'm also glad I don't HAVE to use unix-y commands!

Signed,

Former cross-platform web server owner: One Power Mac 7600/180 with Mac OS 9 (WebStar, MacDNS, EIMS, NetPresenz, etc.) and one ANS 700 with LinuxPPC (Apache, etc.)

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

Try this.

I learned *nix as a college student, working in computer labs during the early days of the web. I mostly learned from fellow geeks over time... "Wow, how'd ya do that?" type of thing. So, I'm not sure I can help ya much.

The real trick is to learn a bit at a time, and use it. Some commands are similar to DOS, if you ever used that. Often, shells will have things like "dir" which are not UNIX commands aliased to "ls -Fsalg" which gives a very dir-like presentation.

Want to find a command? Use apropos. Want to know the specifics of a command? Use man. Don't understand the above? Try "man man" or "man apropos". Once you kind of get these basics, you can dig around and learn a lot on your own.

I'm kind of glad I have all the unix-y tools at my disposal under OS X... I'm also glad I don't HAVE to use unix-y commands!

Signed,

Former cross-platform web server owner: One Power Mac 7600/180 with Mac OS 9 (WebStar, MacDNS, EIMS, NetPresenz, etc.) and one ANS 700 with LinuxPPC (Apache, etc.)

Its all greek to me.......
Έμαθα * nix ως σπουδαστής κολλεγίων, που εργάζεται στα εργαστήρια υπολογιστών κατά τη διάρκεια των πρόωρων ημερών του Ιστού. Έμαθα συνήθως από το συνεργάτη geeks κατά τη διάρκεια του χρόνου... "Η καταπληκτική επιτυχία, how'd ya κάνει αυτό;" τύπος πράγματος. Έτσι, δεν είμαι βέβαιος ότι μπορώ να βοηθήσω ya πολύ. Το πραγματικό τέχνασμα είναι να μάθει λίγο σε έναν χρόνο, και να χρησιμοποιηθεί. Μερικές εντολές είναι παρόμοιες με το DOS, εάν χρησιμοποιήσατε πάντα αυτού. Συχνά, τα κοχύλια θα έχουν τα πράγματα όπως "το dir" που δεν είναι εντολές Unix "στο LS - Fsalg" που κάνει μια πολύ δηρ-όπως παρουσίαση. Θελήστε να βρείτε μια εντολή; Χρησιμοποιήστε εύθετο. Θελήστε να ξέρετε τις λεπτομέρειες μιας εντολής; Χρησιμοποιήστε το άτομο. Δεν καταλαβαίνει τα ανωτέρω; Δοκιμάστε το "άτομο ατόμων" ή "το άτομο εύθετο". Μόλις πάρετε καλοί αυτά τα βασικά, μπορείτε να σκάψετε γύρω και να μάθετε πολύ από μόνος σας. Είμαι καλός ευτυχούς εγώ έχω όλα τα εργαλεία Unix-Y στη διάθεσή μου κάτω από το OS Χ... Είμαι επίσης ευτυχής ότι δεν ειναι απαραίτητο να χρησιμοποιήσω τις εντολές Unix-Y! Υπογεγραμμένος, Προηγούμενος ιδιοκτήτης κεντρικών υπολογιστών δικτύου διαγώνιος-πλατφορμών: Μια MAC 7600/180 δύναμης με τη MAC OS 9 (WebStar, MacDNS, EIMS, NetPresenz, κ.λπ....) και ένα ANS 700 με LinuxPPC (Apache, κ.λπ....)