Glider Student needs tow help. PLEASE!!!

Free bird

Filing Flight Plan
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Brimfield,Illinois
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Free Bird
I'v just finished my 9th flight. I feel pretty good about everything except the tow. Everyone says that I will get it. I would like that to be flight 10 and not flight 50. If I'm only controlling the rudder it is fine. When I get the stick and rudders it turns into a big mess. :mad2: What is the ah ha moment of now I get this for others??
 
If you've never flown before... then you are not doing to bad.. the ah ha moment is just around the corner.

Did anyone suggest you are trying to hard?
 
I'v just finished my 9th flight. I feel pretty good about everything except the tow. Everyone says that I will get it. I would like that to be flight 10 and not flight 50. If I'm only controlling the rudder it is fine. When I get the stick and rudders it turns into a big mess. :mad2: What is the ah ha moment of now I get this for others??
I can think of a couple hints.

1) Focus on matching your wings to the towplane and keeping it's location fairly constant in your windscreen. You must learn to make correctional inputs by changing your attitude (and with small changes) rather than changes in position. You've likely learned to do just the opposite (correct positional error with positional changes) because that's how most folks drive their cars.

2) When you make any control input, remove at least half of it before you see any resulting change in attitude or position then remove the rest as soon as the correction appears to be making things better. If you hold any aileron or elevator deflection long enough to make the effect visually obvious you will overcorrect and it's virtually guaranteed that your initial response to a position error will be excessive (hence the need to cut it in half right away). This one technique is likely to reduce your overcorrections noticeably.

If you see something that needs correcting (e.g. you're sliding to the right) first stop that motion by returning to that matched attitude (same bank, towplane in that "sweet spot" on the windscreen) then tweak the attitude slightly to bring the sailplane back to where it should be. IOW, assuming you are a little off to the right you have to make four attitude changes (roll left, roll level, roll right, then back to level where level means wings parallel to the towplane) and the goal should be to make each such change deliberate and timely but small and that's only possible if you keep track of your attitude (in relation to the towplane) as well as or better than you pay attention to your position.
 
Slow and steady movements. Gismo mentioned over controlling which is no doubt your main problem.
If you get out of position on tow just ease it back into the tow position.
 
Gismo's description is great. Additionally it helps to think about that you are matching flight path with the towplane.

Besides matching attitude think 1,3, 5 seconds ahead... envision as if you were standing on the ground where the towplane is going via observation of his attitude, flight controls, and knowing where (s)he wants their aircraft to go. Just like you'd know standing beside the runway where the aircraft going by in an airshow will be in the next second... next three seconds... next five seconds... You can see that right aileron come up and the rudder push out to the right... where is the towplane going to go? How fast is he going to roll? It's visible.

Train your eyes to see what the towplane pilot is doing. Now you have a tiny leg up on the scenario. You see that rudder move ever so slightly, and you can anticipate and match.

You don't see it at first. You're too busy just trying to put your own aircraft at a "position" as someone else said. Then you start to realize its really a game of follow-the-leader. You are flying a flight path that will generally match what the towplane *just* did... (s)he's just a tiny bit ahead of you on the train tracks. The rope is trying to pull you to where they are, you counter by flying just ever so slightly to where they *were*... just draw a line in your mind and follow the leader.

For some people the drill of "boxing the tow" makes this click... you realize to stay on one corner of that box, you have to fly exactly what the towplane flew but slightly high or low and off to one side by just a bit. For others a long tow right behind the towplane and then gentle turns and they start to have it click.

I haven't flown gliders for a long time, but I remember struggling during the first few tows to try to put the nose of my glider where I wanted it, but forgetting there was the rest of the glider and some long wings that were going to fly exactly where they were pointed, and having the towplane jerk the nose a bit, or just chasing that "spot" without thinking where the sailplane was headed. Then you realize you can (mostly) just ignore the rope and fly the glider to match the flight path of the towplane and it'll just sit there like it was on rails.

Of course, turbulence and sudden moves by the tow make this difficult sometimes, but the idea then is that you're flying the *average* flight path of the tow. (S)he is bouncing, you're bouncing, just follow the leader and correct a little more when you get bounced off the track.

It'll come. When you see it, it'll be obvious. And you might over or undershoot a turn just a bit while figuring it out... follow your training for a slack line if you get that far out of whack... think about how to change your flight path ever so slightly to not jerk hard as the rope comes up. Anticipate where the towplane will be in a second or two.

You'll get it. Keep practicing. Envision the two aircraft and what they would look like if you had a camera plane chasing you a few hundred yards back... if the tow is banked and you're not, or not enough, you know what that looks like at an airshow and where the aircraft go... fix it by matching the towplane.
 
If you've never flown before... then you are not doing to bad.. the ah ha moment is just around the corner.

Did anyone suggest you are trying to hard?

It can be pretty bad if you have flown before, too...:D
For transition pilots and newbies alike, #1 error on tow is probably trying to fly the glider as if it were another power plane in trail behind the towplane. It is not quite the same; requires a lot of cross-controlling, not coordinated maneuvers. Start climbing, descending, and turning just as you would off tow, and you will have a bad time. It seems very counter-intuitive at first, but if you think about what's going on, it makes more sense.

Free bird, just make sure your instructor knows you are frustrated, box the wake whenever you can (I know it seems impossible now, but you should improve if you just keep doing that exercise), and be patient... it'll come to you eventually. Being frustrated and worrying that you are behind the learning curve won't help you, frankly. Just keep working on it.
 
Get a picture of the tow plane on the horizon for your reference. Maybe wheels, struts, whatever the CFI suggests.
When the tow plane bounces up ahead of you, don't jerk the glider up in reflex. You'll hit the same lift in a second or two.
When the tow plane bobbles around in straight flight, don't try to stay behind it by turning. You'll always be out of sync, overcorrect, etc. Use the rudder and yaw. Sometimes pitch up a little to take up slack. As soon as your correction starts working, take it out so you don't overshoot.
See if you can get Tony Condon to give some tips. He hangs out here and on the Purple Board.
 
I was a powered pilot, PPL, with a fear of losing an engine for real, sure I did the engine out stuff and could do the spot landing well enough to pass my check ride, but I always had that nagging thought in the back of my head, what if, what if the engine quick for real, could I actually put it down somewhere safe and sound?

I was working on my commercial and Instrument and wanted to get my CFI but I really was concerned about being able to deal with a dead engine. I decided to deal with my problem the only way that made sense to me, Get a glider rating. Where every landing is engine out, and as we all know, take offs are optional, landings are mandatory.

So I invested in a transition course, 10 flights and a check ride later it was one of my favorite flying experiences. I remember problems in the tow, and my instructor hammering home the concept of using all the controls to put the entire aircraft not just the nose where I wanted it. Elevator, aileron, rudder and spoilers as well as slips left and right to find and hold the sweet spot. Keeping that line and tow in the right place, no matter what , boxing the tow or holding in a high tow or low tow position, didn’t matter. Just like in learning to fly powered aircraft I began to think ahead and get ahead of the aircraft. Making many minor changes as soon as I realized they were needed. Not just sitting there going for a ride.

Hang in there it will get to be second nature for you. Remember we do these things because they are fun and we enjoy them.
 
One other thing to try. Try trimming the glider so you can let go of the stick temporarily. See how long you can go letting the glider tow itself. Note this won't work in some gliders as they don't have enough trim to do it.

Brian cfiig
 
Thank you for all of the help. I'm trying to visualize each response and what I'm currently doing different.

I havent set the trim and will try that or ask my CFI if he thinks that would help.

I like the concept of keeping the whole plane in mind and not just the nose. My focus has been the nose. It makes me think, what would I do differently. As far as making minor changes quickly, I'm wondering if I respond too quickly.

Which goes to the post of don't always respond to the tow plane bouncing because I will bounce soon. Currently I'm responding quickly to every movement and maybe too quickly.

And Rotty daddy would you detail more about not flying the same as off tow because I try to control the plane the same way.

Flying the average seems to make sence and confirm I'm responding too much to the tow plane movement.

Gizmo are you saying to correct the high low first, and then the right, left? I think I'm making small adjustments to not over correct but I end up chasing a big mess. Something is too much and it's with the ailerons.

And no I'v not flown before. I'm really having a lot of fun. I have a great CFI and lots of fun, helpful pilots at the club. I just think more experiences are better to learn from. Thank you!!
 
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Gizmo are you saying to correct the high low first, and then the right, left? I think I'm making small adjustments to not over correct but I end up chasing a big mess. Something is too much and it's with the ailerons...

As a tow pilot I get very uneasy if the glider gets high--use the elevator and keep the towplane on the horizon (high tow position). It's most important to keep the towplane on the horizon, your lateral position will naturally have a tendency to self correct so using aileron will tend to lead to an overcorrection. Use the ailerons to match any bank angle the tow plane has but use them very sparingly otherwise. Try to use the rudder as much as possible to skid left or right to get behind the towplane and stay there. Plan on flying uncoordinated on tow (ignore the string) as the added drag keeps the rope taut.
 
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My glider flies a lot more smoothly on tow with the gear up, so if you have a retrac you might consider that.
 
As a tow pilot I get very uneasy if the glider gets high.

I like to be able to see the glider in the mirror at all times, so in return I like to follow the towplane so I can always see the mirror. Not everyone does that, though.

I can't help you with the towing problems you have, other than to say that anyone who's ever flown a glider has had the same trouble at first. There seems to be a point where you simply "use the Force" and it just clicks into place.
 
As a tow pilot I get very uneasy if the glider gets high--use the elevator and keep the towplane on the horizon (high tow position). It's most important to keep the towplane on the horizon, your lateral position will naturally have a tendency to self correct so using aileron will tend to lead to an overcorrection. Use the ailerons to match any bank angle the tow plane has but use them very sparingly otherwise. Try to use the rudder as much as possible to skid left or right to get behind the towplane and stay there. Plan on flying uncoordinated on tow (ignore the string) as the added drag keeps the rope taut.
^^^^What he said, but I'd try to learn to ride the tow without skidding so much except when you need to re-tighten the towline. While it is a bit easier to make lateral adjustments with only the rudder, it's quite possible to do the same using (smaller) inputs on both rudder and aileron. The trick is to never let your bank angle become more than a couple degrees different than the towplane's bank, and making that 1-2 degree difference in a direction that brings you back behind the towplane. There's nothing unsafe about skidding on tow, I just think it's generally unnecessary and creates bad habits.

Definitely make pitch control and relative altitude your first priority, if you get very far above the towplane the towpilot is going to disconnect. If you get off to one side he'll just turn.
 
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I fly on Sunday and will do at least 2 flights. I will definitely focus on pitch first and side position second. That may be the biggest issue. Thank you so much for all the tips.
 
And Rotty daddy would you detail more about not flying the same as off tow because I try to control the plane the same way.
What I meant was: you can't always do what you would do if, say, you were off tow following another glider, and wanted to stay behind it in the same relative position you would have on tow. With 9 flights, you should already know about this. Maybe this is not your problem, but I will elaborate briefly, just in case...

An example: let's say you are higher on tow than normal, and way off to the left. You want to get back on center,at normal "high tow" height. If you were free and just following the other aircraft, you could just make a coordinated descending turn to the right. In a glider on tow, this will not quite get the result you want... you will more than likely wind up speeding up a bit, slacking the rope a bit, then overshooting your target spot laterally before you can stop the banking and descending. It would turn into a series of S-turns, nose going up and down all the while, and the tow pilot would probably think you were losing control and would hit his release to get rid of you. :D

If the towplane were to turn while you were doing this, it would be even worse (picture it).

So the right way to fix that particular position problem is to first and foremost use rudder to get back to center, keeping the wings more or less level. The resulting skid would get you descending with very little if any elevator input, and the drag would also tighten the rope, which will tend to pull you back towards the center.

Speaking of which, consider how you move up on one side while boxing the wake: I guess different gliders vary, but in the Schweizers I fly, I usually have to actually hold a little "outside" aileron to keep from getting pulled back in as the glider slows from that small pitch-up needed to go from low corner to high corner. Doing the same thing off-tow, you would not need this.
In short, the dynamics of the rope have to be considered... you don't need to understand it completely, you just have to remember you are being dragged along at the end of a rope!

As stated by others, you pretty much ignore the yaw string on tow- most of the time, when changing position, you will have rudder and ailerons uncoordinated.
As for following the towplane in turns, that's usually a coordinated turn, but the timing is important, and matching the towplane's bank angle is pretty much the secret to success there. If you are boxing the wake during a turn, or get out of position by accident during a turn, your best bet is to do what you muct with rudder and elevator, but be sure to keep that bank angle the same as the towplane's!! Still, though, if the towplane tunrs, and you are early or late, even if you match the bank, you may find you are tunring "inside" or "outside", not following the towplane's path through the air. To fix this, you need rudder, primarily- don't change the bank angle trying to chase the towplane! It's OK to skid or slip a little, if needed, during these turns... it's not OK to start S-turning all over the place. Basically, in turns, you fix your position the same way as in level tow flight... only thing that's different is the horizon looks tilted.

You mention over-reacting... maybe in general you're just moving your hands and feet too much. There's no magic formula to fix that; just work on applying only what's needed, only when necessary, and it will get easier for you.
 
An example: let's say you are higher on tow than normal, and way off to the left. You want to get back on center,at normal "high tow" height. If you were free and just following the other aircraft, you could just make a coordinated descending turn to the right. In a glider on tow, this will not quite get the result you want... you will more than likely wind up speeding up a bit, slacking the rope a bit, then overshooting your target spot laterally before you can stop the banking and descending. It would turn into a series of S-turns, nose going up and down all the while, and the tow pilot would probably think you were losing control and would hit his release to get rid of you. :D

If the towplane were to turn while you were doing this, it would be even worse (picture it)

I have a vivid picture of that in my head from last weekend. :yikes: You've described it perfectly. Tomorrow I will try to do most of the correction with the rudder first and elevator second. Your what to do scenarios really help.
Thank you for explaining .
 
I did 4 flights today and it was wayyy better. The wind was really low and also helped. I got to do my first complete ground up tow. I also got to fly with the tow pilot who showed me what really getting out of control looks like....yikes it made me terrified and Say ok I was never that bad.... So a good day and I got to land 2 times as well. Progresssss...yes and thank you all for the help.
 
I did 4 flights today and it was wayyy better. The wind was really low and also helped. I got to do my first complete ground up tow. I also got to fly with the tow pilot who showed me what really getting out of control looks like....yikes it made me terrified and Say ok I was never that bad.... So a good day and I got to land 2 times as well. Progresssss...yes and thank you all for the help.

:thumbsup:
 
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