Glasir pre-buy in Dallas

ssonixx

Pre-takeoff checklist
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ssonixx
Hi folks,

Been reading these forums for a while. Decided to post a question as I decided to give myself a bit of a Christmas present and buy a plane. I made an accepted offer on a Glasair IIS here in Dallas, and am looking for some help to have it inspected. Completion of the purchase is contingent on a pre-buy.

I've not owned an experimental before and could use some experience on my side looking at it.

I honestly have been trolling the web looking for resources on these planes. Lots of folks buying RVs but not so much on the Glasairs.

Trying to close this purchase out right first couple weeks after the New Year.

Thanks in advance for any advice or feedback.
 
Get a hold of the local EAA chapter and start calling around. They will have info and people who can help with your inspection.

Most RV builders / inspectors would be happy to look at the Glasair also. If you post the same question on VAF you should get many responses.

Welcome to POA!
 
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The Glasair II is an AWSOME plane! To date it has been my favorite GA airplane that I have flown. If you buy it, share some pics!
 
I owned and flew a glasair 1ft. I built a glastar that I'm flying now. I am also building a glasair 3 currently. I would advise you to look for someone in the Eaa with composite experience. The rv guys can help but my experience with most of them is that they are afraid of composites and might not be of much help. If it is well built and you finish the sale it is an excellent aircraft but I recommend some training before you solo if you haven't already got time in one.
Todd
 
After some more searching around, I ended up finding a local company... well, a husband, wife team incorporated... here in the Dallas area that seems to be up to the challenge.

I did reach out to some RV folks and it seems the composite vs metal thing is enough of a difference that I was given a few caveats in their responses. Still very much willing to help though.

Merry Holidays.
 
Where will you base it? Along with Spike, Joe, RJ and Scott, I'm at KADS.

After some more searching around, I ended up finding a local company... well, a husband, wife team incorporated... here in the Dallas area that seems to be up to the challenge.

I did reach out to some RV folks and it seems the composite vs metal thing is enough of a difference that I was given a few caveats in their responses. Still very much willing to help though.

Merry Holidays.
 
I am a student pilot, flying out of RBD. I started training up at KADS, but switched because less auto traffic to RBD on late weekday afternoons. Also, the flight trainers at RBD are a set of Grumman Cheetahs. Really neat little planes -- low wing and faster landing speed.

I think KADS or RBD is a toss up for me. I know I am buying more of a plane than I am ready for, so no pressure to move it close at the moment. I am hoping to start IFR training in March and want to train in it, so will move it then. Speaking of which, I need to find someone that can train me in it. Any thoughts?

BTW, completely off topic, but I just happened to watch the tv show Plane Xtreme for the first time tonight. Weather Channel -- who knew? Some unbelievable flying... 14 hours of hand flying across the Atlantic in a poorly maintained, single-piston clunker. If those folks are on this board -- hats off to you. Great show.
 
Good choice in aircraft!

Be sure you're as quick as that plane is though :wink2:

Nice to see someone on this board who doesnt just buy some PA28 or 182 or Mooney/Bo!


I agree with the others, get on EAA and find a glasair guy to do your pre-buy, I'd also try to find someone with a IA on their ticket, I've found when the pre-buy goes well it aint much more $ to add a fresh annual signoff in the books
 
I'd say any IA in the area would be able to do the pre-buy. Just print out the SB's that apply to the II and you'll be fine. There really isn't much to it though. Glasair construction is dirt simple so there really aren't too many surprises for that particular model. All the hard work has been done at the factory so basically you'll be checking for any cosmetic flaws and possibly some delam.

More important than the pre-buy is getting a thorough checkout in the aircraft. Your insurance company will require about 10 hrs anyway before they'll even insure you.
 
Hi folks,

Been reading these forums for a while. Decided to post a question as I decided to give myself a bit of a Christmas present and buy a plane. I made an accepted offer on a Glasair IIS here in Dallas, and am looking for some help to have it inspected. Completion of the purchase is contingent on a pre-buy.

I've not owned an experimental before and could use some experience on my side looking at it.

I honestly have been trolling the web looking for resources on these planes. Lots of folks buying RVs but not so much on the Glasairs.

Trying to close this purchase out right first couple weeks after the New Year.

Thanks in advance for any advice or feedback.

I would take any composite experimental to Larry before I set foot in it. He is at T67 (Hick's airfield just North of Fort Worth). I know the owner/pilot of the 400 with the radial crack on Larry's homepage and the story. There is no substitute for this kind of composite experience.

http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com
 
I am a student pilot, flying out of RBD. I started training up at KADS, but switched because less auto traffic to RBD on late weekday afternoons. Also, the flight trainers at RBD are a set of Grumman Cheetahs. Really neat little planes -- low wing and faster landing speed.

I think KADS or RBD is a toss up for me. I know I am buying more of a plane than I am ready for, so no pressure to move it close at the moment. I am hoping to start IFR training in March and want to train in it, so will move it then. Speaking of which, I need to find someone that can train me in it. Any thoughts?

BTW, completely off topic, but I just happened to watch the tv show Plane Xtreme for the first time tonight. Weather Channel -- who knew? Some unbelievable flying... 14 hours of hand flying across the Atlantic in a poorly maintained, single-piston clunker. If those folks are on this board -- hats off to you. Great show.


I was very torn b/t my mooney and a glasair I. I had a few people tell me the glasair was a little past my experience level. I think they're great planes, just stay ahead of it.
 
Re: mansberger... great find. Appreciate it. Will give them (Larry) a jingle after Christmas.

Thanks for the link.
 
I'd say any IA in the area would be able to do the pre-buy. Just print out the SB's that apply to the II and you'll be fine. There really isn't much to it though. Glasair construction is dirt simple so there really aren't too many surprises for that particular model. All the hard work has been done at the factory so basically you'll be checking for any cosmetic flaws and possibly some delam.

More important than the pre-buy is getting a thorough checkout in the aircraft. Your insurance company will require about 10 hrs anyway before they'll even insure you.

Dirt simple is relative. Compared to building an rv it's a challenging build. Wing incidence on the glasair is pretty critical and I can tell you it's not that easy to do. Also, composite work varies a lot between builders. Easy to make it heavy and also easy to fail to saturate a lay up, both will weaken the structure. I know of a buyer of a glasair I who disassembled a previously flying aircraft with 400 hours and trucked it home only to find out the builder never installed the aft wing attach mounts! I've seen many Glasairs I wouldn't fly let alone buy. Build quality matters.
 
Just a note to ALL planning on flying Experimental aircraft:

Because of rates, get your life insurance and disability policies up to date and at coverage levels you expect to want for a real long time into the future BEFORE you fly in Experimental aircraft because it may be either disqualifying or cause a higher rate for you. After you have a policy, you can do whatever, it's history that they are concerned about.
 
Any news on the glasair prebuy?


The plan is to have it looked at this weekend. Keeping my fingers crossed that this works out.

BTW, the aircraft has a Superior XP-360 A1A2 in it. Superior claims that all of their engines have been thoroughly balanced and will run smoothly from rich through lean to shutdown with a smooth idle. And, it otherwise shares the same components as their certified Vantage 360 engines with exception of a rocker configuration. I personally like the idea of being able to run LOP (really not trying to start a LOP vs ROP discussion here). Anyone have any experiences with these engines?
 
The plan is to have it looked at this weekend. Keeping my fingers crossed that this works out.

BTW, the aircraft has a Superior XP-360 A1A2 in it. Superior claims that all of their engines have been thoroughly balanced and will run smoothly from rich through lean to shutdown with a smooth idle. And, it otherwise shares the same components as their certified Vantage 360 engines with exception of a rocker configuration. I personally like the idea of being able to run LOP (really not trying to start a LOP vs ROP discussion here). Anyone have any experiences with these engines?

I got ~350 hours on an XP-360 engine in my Tango over the last 7 years. The engine has been flawless. Last compression checks in December were...

#1 78/80
#2 75/80
#3 77/80
#4 76/80

Can't help you on the LOP/ROP thing since I have an Aerosance FADEC on there, however, the untrained eye will assume it's a Lycoming until the data plate is spotted.
 
SSONIX, I don't know you but I'm still going to ask some questions at the risk of butting in.
Student pilots and Glasair is not a good combination.
Low time pilots and Glasair is not a good combination.
Have you discussed this with a CFI?
Have you discussed this with your airplane ins. co.?
Have you discussed this with your life ins. co.?
Have you discussed this with your wife?
Have you discussed this with your API? (You will have to have one.)
 
SSONIX, I don't know you but I'm still going to ask some questions at the risk of butting in.
Student pilots and Glasair is not a good combination.
Low time pilots and Glasair is not a good combination.
Have you discussed this with a CFI?
Have you discussed this with your airplane ins. co.?
Have you discussed this with your life ins. co.?
Have you discussed this with your wife?
Have you discussed this with your API? (You will have to have one.)

Would answering your questions in the affirmative change your mind or are these questions rhetorical?

What is an API?

Also, I am curious if you have had the misfortune of owning a Glasair Super II FT while a low time pilot and therefore regret having made the decision?

Thanks.
 
SSONIX, I don't know you but I'm still going to ask some questions at the risk of butting in.
Student pilots and Glasair is not a good combination.
Low time pilots and Glasair is not a good combination.
Have you discussed this with a CFI?
Have you discussed this with your airplane ins. co.?
Have you discussed this with your life ins. co.?
Have you discussed this with your wife?
Have you discussed this with your API? (You will have to have one.)

While I agree the glasair is a hot airplane it can be managed as a low time pilot. When I bought mine I had 62 hours in cessna 172 during training for my private. I had exactly one half hour checkout and was on my own. I was very carefully about when I chose to fly. Light winds and great vfr. It took about 20 hours before I was comfortable in the plane and really started to enjoy the sporty way it flew. More checkout is much better, and a healthy respect for the plane is necessary but it is definitely doable for a low time pilot.
Todd
 
Any news on the glasair prebuy?

Hard to believe three months has almost elapsed.

So, the quick summary is... deal is done... well, almost done.

Pre-buy:
Found some squawks that were addressed. Biggest issues were 1) the nose gear needed to be torqued down more tightly (WOAH!) and 2) fiberglass around rear landing gear needed to be epoxied to catch a small area of possible delamination. Other than that, ping tests came out great. Was no reason that I shouldn't buy it -- said that it was a great looking plane, the engine compartment was particularly orderly and top notch, and overall was a good job. The plane is a "GO!"

New to buying, this has been a bit of an ordeal trying to finalize, little of which had to do with the plane itself. I have also been on an excessive travel schedule since the beginning of the new year. Anyway, I am on the home stretch. The plan is to have the plane in its new home week after next.

Some interesting considerations through this process --

Insurance:
Very much a luck of the draw kind of deal, it seems like. I did secure coverage even though I don't have my PPL yet and 0 hours MM. I read through experiences on the web and boards and it seems everyones situation is a bit unique, and what is reported in as flight time or experience requirements does vary quite a bit by underwriter. Some insurance companies simply refused to even quote. With the policy I now have, I will need to have a CFI accompany me on flights (CFI acting as PIC) till such time as I have both my PPL and 10 hours make and model time and been endorsed by said CFI. That was not an issue for me, and in fact, I actually thought their requirements were rather "underwhelming."

Property tax in Texas:
ZERO! NONE! CPA says not to worry, no property tax on private sale for non-commercial use in Texas. SWEET!

Checkout:
An interesting problem that I came across and one that I never even considered till I was knee deep.... was trying to figure out how to get thoroughly checked out in the plane and also get sufficient transition training done. Not so big of a problem if you are flying a more "available plane" like a C172. A bit harder to find someone who has any experience in these Glasair planes. Further, if i wanted to continue to pursue my IFR rating, I would really need to find someone who was an IFR instructor. How many Glasair CFIs around Dallas are there?

Fortunately, I met a really great pilot through the grapevine, who is also an instructor, Glasair builder, and one of these guys who has been there and done that...in his own Glasair (of exact make and model) who is also a CFII. He is also full time available to take me through transition, checkout, and IFR training. BINGO.

Hangar:
Chose KRBD. Tower closure due to sequestration potentially as an overhang, but I don't really have many other choices. I am split evenly in terms of a drive to KADS or KRBD. And, the idea of paying the excessive fuel prices at KADS makes me throw up a little in my mouth. Plus, two runways at KRBD.

First flight:
Really an amazing plane. You sit fairly flat in the plane and it kind of wraps around you. Enough shoulder room to hold two average, mid-size 190lb guys comfortably. Seeing over the panel was a bit different though from what I was used to in the Cheetah...panel is either higher or I am seated lower. The trainer I fly has 150hp on tap, whereas this plane holds 30hp more to 180hp -- it is quite a bit of difference. The plane really does move through the air. And, climbs in a big hurry. I wasn't sure what to think about the stick vs yoke before the flight. I found the plane is very sensitive to stick movement but also the stick does provide quite a bit of pressure that an accidental bump wouldn't unnecessarily upset stability. After a few minutes in movement, the stick felt natural and really emphasized just how capable the plane is. Landing is a new experience in this plane mostly because the sight picture and control positions are different for me. We did a few of them. The plane approaches at 80kts, very similar to the Cheetah. It does have extended wing tips and slotted flaps so Vso @ 55kts, Vs1 @ 67kts. Unlike the Cheetah though which drops great without flaps, this plane glides well though so flaps and a bunch of thinking ahead to slow down help quite a bit. But more than that, flaps also help to put more of the runway in the window.

Plane will be home in a couple weeks. I am thrilled.
 
Ssonixx, congratulations on your impending purchase.

Be sure that the seller qualifies as an "occasional seller," and that you get the Statement of Occasional Sale form executed.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxforms/01-917.pdf

There is no need to file it anywhere, just be sure you have it in case the Comptroller's office comes calling, hand out, for sales tax (they do that!).
 
Congrats thats very exciting! By the way just so you know even after you pay for the plane and take delivery it technologically is not considered yours until you post photos here which by POA by laws must contain a panel photo and one of you grinning ear to ear with the new bird.:D
 
Don't let the fuel prices at KADS influence your decision. I've been based there since 1987 and haven't bought 25 gallons of fuel there since the big price hikes started six years ago.

You can fly any direction for 15 minutes and buy fuel $2-3/gal cheaper, and the gas stops are in the same direction as all the fun places we frequent.
 
Ssonixx, congratulations on your impending purchase.

Be sure that the seller qualifies as an "occasional seller," and that you get the Statement of Occasional Sale form executed.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxforms/01-917.pdf

There is no need to file it anywhere, just be sure you have it in case the Comptroller's office comes calling, hand out, for sales tax (they do that!).

Thanks for the link. I did come across this on POA previously so took note of it. You have to appreciate that we have official forms that are needed, but you don't actually file, and you just sit on. I wonder what the statute of limitations is on pursuing back taxes by the state.
 
Thanks for the link. I did come across this on POA previously so took note of it. You have to appreciate that we have official forms that are needed, but you don't actually file, and you just sit on. I wonder what the statute of limitations is on pursuing back taxes by the state.

SOL doesn't matter, it's a lot longer than they need to find your purchase (they just use the FAA data base and other sources) and then send you the letter.

Since the comptroller's office formed the BART (business activity research team) to track airplane deals in ~2007, the net has become much tighter and the followup much quicker and more thorough. The occasional sale statement doesn't have to be signed on the day the deal is finalized, you can ask the seller to execute it at any time prior to the time the state wants the information. It's obviously better to have it included as a condition of the PA, but not necessary.
 
Don't let the fuel prices at KADS influence your decision. I've been based there since 1987 and haven't bought 25 gallons of fuel there since the big price hikes started six years ago.

You can fly any direction for 15 minutes and buy fuel $2-3/gal cheaper, and the gas stops are in the same direction as all the fun places we frequent.

Kind of like buying a house with "outdoor" plumbing. :)

I wonder how they justify pricing other than maybe they are trying to cater to the corporate crowd that can absorb fuel prices. Or, maybe less completion with Landmark closing. Or, maybe Addison imposed a fuel tax.

Regardless +$7 for fuel seems out of the ballpark by a mile consider $5 fuel is around the corner. Or maybe it is the corporate customer that is the sucker responding to ADS price collusion.
 
Kind of like buying a house with "outdoor" plumbing. :)

I wonder how they justify pricing other than maybe they are trying to cater to the corporate crowd that can absorb fuel prices. Or, maybe less completion with Landmark closing. Or, maybe Addison imposed a fuel tax.

Regardless +$7 for fuel seems out of the ballpark by a mile consider $5 fuel is around the corner. Or maybe it is the corporate customer that is the sucker responding to ADS price collusion.

Keep in mind if you are based there and want fuel you can get a good discount off of posted prices.
 
Keep in mind if you are based there and want fuel you can get a good discount off of posted prices.

Good point. I get $0.80/gal off the FBO's posted prices which makes it pretty much a wash to actually land, taxi, and take-off from somewhere I wouldn't normally do so just to get gas.
 
Hard to believe three months has almost elapsed.

So, the quick summary is... deal is done... well, almost done.

Pre-buy:
Found some squawks that were addressed. Biggest issues were 1) the nose gear needed to be torqued down more tightly (WOAH!) and 2) fiberglass around rear landing gear needed to be epoxied to catch a small area of possible delamination. Other than that, ping tests came out great. Was no reason that I shouldn't buy it -- said that it was a great looking plane, the engine compartment was particularly orderly and top notch, and overall was a good job. The plane is a "GO!"

New to buying, this has been a bit of an ordeal trying to finalize, little of which had to do with the plane itself. I have also been on an excessive travel schedule since the beginning of the new year. Anyway, I am on the home stretch. The plan is to have the plane in its new home week after next.

Some interesting considerations through this process --

Insurance:
Very much a luck of the draw kind of deal, it seems like. I did secure coverage even though I don't have my PPL yet and 0 hours MM. I read through experiences on the web and boards and it seems everyones situation is a bit unique, and what is reported in as flight time or experience requirements does vary quite a bit by underwriter. Some insurance companies simply refused to even quote. With the policy I now have, I will need to have a CFI accompany me on flights (CFI acting as PIC) till such time as I have both my PPL and 10 hours make and model time and been endorsed by said CFI. That was not an issue for me, and in fact, I actually thought their requirements were rather "underwhelming."

Property tax in Texas:
ZERO! NONE! CPA says not to worry, no property tax on private sale for non-commercial use in Texas. SWEET!

Checkout:
An interesting problem that I came across and one that I never even considered till I was knee deep.... was trying to figure out how to get thoroughly checked out in the plane and also get sufficient transition training done. Not so big of a problem if you are flying a more "available plane" like a C172. A bit harder to find someone who has any experience in these Glasair planes. Further, if i wanted to continue to pursue my IFR rating, I would really need to find someone who was an IFR instructor. How many Glasair CFIs around Dallas are there?

Fortunately, I met a really great pilot through the grapevine, who is also an instructor, Glasair builder, and one of these guys who has been there and done that...in his own Glasair (of exact make and model) who is also a CFII. He is also full time available to take me through transition, checkout, and IFR training. BINGO.

Hangar:
Chose KRBD. Tower closure due to sequestration potentially as an overhang, but I don't really have many other choices. I am split evenly in terms of a drive to KADS or KRBD. And, the idea of paying the excessive fuel prices at KADS makes me throw up a little in my mouth. Plus, two runways at KRBD.

First flight:
Really an amazing plane. You sit fairly flat in the plane and it kind of wraps around you. Enough shoulder room to hold two average, mid-size 190lb guys comfortably. Seeing over the panel was a bit different though from what I was used to in the Cheetah...panel is either higher or I am seated lower. The trainer I fly has 150hp on tap, whereas this plane holds 30hp more to 180hp -- it is quite a bit of difference. The plane really does move through the air. And, climbs in a big hurry. I wasn't sure what to think about the stick vs yoke before the flight. I found the plane is very sensitive to stick movement but also the stick does provide quite a bit of pressure that an accidental bump wouldn't unnecessarily upset stability. After a few minutes in movement, the stick felt natural and really emphasized just how capable the plane is. Landing is a new experience in this plane mostly because the sight picture and control positions are different for me. We did a few of them. The plane approaches at 80kts, very similar to the Cheetah. It does have extended wing tips and slotted flaps so Vso @ 55kts, Vs1 @ 67kts. Unlike the Cheetah though which drops great without flaps, this plane glides well though so flaps and a bunch of thinking ahead to slow down help quite a bit. But more than that, flaps also help to put more of the runway in the window.

Plane will be home in a couple weeks. I am thrilled.
Try this site. Alan is well qualified to give you the training.
Todd

http://glasairtraining.com/
 
Deadbird is more like buying the same house on the wrong side of the tracks and thinking you got a good deal because it was cheaper.

ADS fuel has always been higher, at least since the 70's when I started flying to Dallas regularly. When the .50/gal difference caused the high-priced gas at ADS to be 2 bucks vs 1.50 at home, it didn't matter much. Now it does.

A friend and former manager of the Landmark facility at ADS told me that any time prices exceeded $5/gal, their business dropped by 40%. Any time you visit the other airports in the area with better prices you'll see a line-up of KADS-based planes. If I were still flying for business I might pay the difference, but might not. One thing is for sure, I'm never planning to live in the hood by RBD, and am not going to park my plane there either. I've seen enough of the mix-master to understand how that drill really works.

Kind of like buying a house with "outdoor" plumbing. :)

I wonder how they justify pricing other than maybe they are trying to cater to the corporate crowd that can absorb fuel prices. Or, maybe less completion with Landmark closing. Or, maybe Addison imposed a fuel tax.

Regardless +$7 for fuel seems out of the ballpark by a mile consider $5 fuel is around the corner. Or maybe it is the corporate customer that is the sucker responding to ADS price collusion.
 
Deadbird is more like buying the same house on the wrong side of the tracks and thinking you got a good deal because it was cheaper.

I need a big box with a door, large enough to secure a plane inside, fuel and a short drive. That really is about it. The cheaper I can get those things, the better of a deal it is to me.

Now, mix-master...that does take some luck to get through it. I say a prayer of thanks every time I manage to successfully thread the needle.
 
That's the reason a lot of planes that once hangared south are now hangared north. As the R/E folks say, location, location . . .

I need a big box with a door, large enough to secure a plane inside, fuel and a short drive. That really is about it. The cheaper I can get those things, the better of a deal it is to me.

Now, mix-master...that does take some luck to get through it. I say a prayer of thanks every time I manage to successfully thread the needle.
 
This is reassuring, I've been looking at Glasair I's for the longest time now.

I have about 25 hours and should be wrapping up my PPL next month, good to see that insurance and stuff on one is doable with low time.

Depending how things go over the summer I may ping you with some questions about the process. :)
 
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This is reassuring, I've been looking at Glasair I's for the longest time now.

I have about 25 hours and should be wrapping up my PPL next month, good to see that insurance and stuff on one is doable with low time.

Depending how things go over the summer I may ping you with some questions about the process. :)

Unless you're on a really tight budget, go with the II. :)
 
Unless you're on a really tight budget, go with the II. :)

It's not super tight, but a II is just out of comfortable reach, trying to stay around $40k or so.

I could do it, but it would start eating away at the fuel and maintenance budget. I am also looking at getting a TD or FT to lower maintenance and insurance costs a bit as well.
 
It's not super tight, but a II is just out of comfortable reach, trying to stay around $40k or so.

I could do it, but it would start eating away at the fuel and maintenance budget. I am also looking at getting a TD or FT to lower maintenance and insurance costs a bit as well.

Well if you can fit in mine I'll have it up for sale late next month after the Condition it done. 40 is about the bare minimum I'd take for it since I have twice that amount into it. Send me a PM when you get serious about buying.
 
Well if you can fit in mine I'll have it up for sale late next month after the Condition it done. 40 is about the bare minimum I'd take for it since I have twice that amount into it. Send me a PM when you get serious about buying.
Awesome, hopefully my weekend toy car sells quicky, I will definitely keep you in mind.
 
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