wabower
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Messages
- 12,013
- Display Name
Display name:
Wayne
Part 91 use is the area that is impacted by the single-asset flight-department-company rules.
Getting back in to flying and aircraft selection
- Thread starter Trimup
- Start date
Five interlocking paths going on here.
1) I am logging time again with an instructor in a rented C182, 16 hours through yesterday.
2) I am looking for a Super Decathlon to buy to hone my stick and rudder skills.
3) CFI will ride with me for free in whatever if I will let him use the Decathlon.
4) I was considering a Silver Eagle turbine 210 as next step time builder but wife says we are going to be at the lake all summer so now considering a Soloy turbine 206/207 on floats.
5) Will be continuing in a consulting role and need to travel with varying number of staff to points 700 and 1500 miles from my location. Efficient solution would be a single pilot jet that I can fly but I will not be ready for that until some indeterminate point in the future and I need a near term solution. Therefore pursuing the purchase of a jet to be pilot flown for now, while I continue to build time.
I am waiting on the blessing from the sharks but I am confident the consulting entity will be able to defend the position that it exists to provide consulting services and that owning and operating the aircraft is a secondary function. I will have a personal sevices contract with the consulting entity, consulting entity will have a contract with the Fortune 500 and all payments will flow through the consulting entity. We should have no issue operating the jet under Part 91.
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2007
- Messages
- 29,889
- Display Name
Display name:
iFlyNothing
Buy a single pilot jet. Pay someone else to fly it, fly right seat and learn how to fly it while logging time. When he goes to sim training, go with him. That way you're building experience and skill at the same time.
And when you're too tired, just sit in back.
And when you're too tired, just sit in back.
Say I bought a Phenom 100. I was under the impression I couldn't even log the right seat time without the appropriate Multi-engine, Instrument, and Type ratings, or am I wrong? Plus I can buy five Hawker 700s or Westwinds for what the Phenom will cost and I lose two seats.
Last edited:
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2007
- Messages
- 29,889
- Display Name
Display name:
iFlyNothing
There aren't any total time requirements for getting those ratings. See Gulfstream Girl who got her G-2/3/4 PIC rating at 250 TT or so. No reason why you can't do that. You could even plan on being SIC in a 2-pilot jet, but it'd make more sense to do single pilot in my opinion.
Isn't a Westwind single pilot? There are some Citations that are - also cheap.
My point was you could make this an excellent learning experience for you and get a lot out of it.
Westwind, Hawker 700, and Sabreliner are definitely not single pilot certified.
I wonder what kind of a deal could be made on this
http://www.controller.com/listingsd...-AVANTI/1993-PIAGGIO-P-180-AVANTI/1269259.htm
now that the owner won't fly it. After this
http://captainslog.aero/2013/hypoxia-incident-audio/
Those definitely are single pilot certified.
Scratch that looking through the ASRS database pressurization problems appear to be the single most common and ongoing issue with this airframe.
wabower
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Messages
- 12,013
- Display Name
Display name:
Wayne
You can buy a Citation for the same money as the old 731-powered jets and fly it SP. 7-8 seats in the cabin and FO seat available as well. Not as fast but fast enough and 60 gph less hourly burn.
stratobee
Cleared for Takeoff
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2011
- Messages
- 1,112
- Display Name
Display name:
stratobee
I have an acquaintance that's in roughly the same position as the thread starter. He bought a TBM700 with a fresh PPL and has now spent well above 100hrs on it to satisfy his insurance company and get his IR. I think this makes more sense than buying various intermediate aircraft to build hours on. Every time you step up you need to satisfy the insurers, so it makes more sense to go for what you want directly.
True enough, but lack of a functional reasonably easy to service lav is a deal breaker for business use. I can tell my boys to go in a bottle but not my consulting team.
wabower
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Messages
- 12,013
- Display Name
Display name:
Wayne
Have you ever looked at the seat with the oval-shaped opening under the cushion that's behind the aft cabin bulkhead?
I have never seen a Citation I-SP with any access to the other side of the aft cabin bulkhead. The ones I have been in, all looked like this one
http://www.controller.com/listingsd...TION-ISP/1977-CESSNA-CITATION-ISP/1255949.htm
with a bench seat in front of the bulkhead.
wabower
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Messages
- 12,013
- Display Name
Display name:
Wayne
Sorry, the 7-8 seat cabins in the $500-600k price range are 550's (II's). Flush or bag potties are standard and can be interchanged. With the waiver that is available fleet-wide, all can be flown single-pilot if you want.
Another reasonable option to consider but I am currently a long way from being comfortable single pilot in a jet. If I remember correctly Thurman Munson was PIC but had his CFI in the right seat at the time of his Citation crash and he still ended up dead.
Interesting question did come up in considering options for this summer, besides a floatplane. It turns out there is a 5000' grass strip with a 4000' crosswind alternate tucked in a section of farm field just 10 minutes from my lake home. The owner is letting a few others fly off it and has put out the word that a couple more operators would be welcome. So are there any ramifications for a pilot flying off of another person's private strip? I am aware that at least in my state the strip owner is running a substantial risk of losing the permit necessary to operate the field.
Last edited:
wabower
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Messages
- 12,013
- Display Name
Display name:
Wayne
Munson is the reason for the current training standards, and I'm certainly not suggesting that you would consider it now or ever. It is intriguing, however, due to the opportunities and options that aren't available in the planes that require two pilots.
Consider the following:
1. In about a week, you can be ME-rated.
2. In about one more week, you can learn the systems and emer procedures in a jet and learn to land it (it's easier than a King Air and many piston twins and with its straight wing it flies the pattern and approach at roughly the same speeds.)
3. You hire an S/P rated pilot as PIC.
3. So now you're your own co-pilot when you want to be (during takeoffs and landings, for most pilot-owners) and are able to sit in the back and talk to your guys while droning along at 370-410. If when you want the type rating, it takes two weeks.
Consider the following:
1. In about a week, you can be ME-rated.
2. In about one more week, you can learn the systems and emer procedures in a jet and learn to land it (it's easier than a King Air and many piston twins and with its straight wing it flies the pattern and approach at roughly the same speeds.)
3. You hire an S/P rated pilot as PIC.
3. So now you're your own co-pilot when you want to be (during takeoffs and landings, for most pilot-owners) and are able to sit in the back and talk to your guys while droning along at 370-410. If when you want the type rating, it takes two weeks.
Did a couple monster cross countries in the rented 182 while the wife and kids went to her mothers, went everywhere from private grass to KMDW, all while going no where. As of yesterday I have logged just over 60 fresh hours, feels pretty good again. I start training for an instrument rating next Tuesday, multi-engine to follow right after.
CFI and I ferried a candidate Super D for a pre-purchase inspection yesterday, made my feet feel so slow, lots to be learned there. A salesman came to pick us up in a Malibu Jetprop he has been bugging me to take a look at. Nice flying aircraft and the fit and finish was less reminscent of 1980s GM cars than some other Pipers, but just not my cup of tea. I have arranged to fly off the private grass strip this summer, but I still don't know in what.
After lots of discussion and analysis of the options for an aircraft for the consulting entity to buy I have decided to move forward on a Westwind II. It has a singular combination of capacity, range, hours only inspections, and current market status that makes it the right choice for my needs in the near term.
Single pilot jet is definitely looking like the ultimate goal at this point but that market just seems way too volatile to wade in to right now given the short timeline I am on.
I have now logged over 600 hours since getting my wings back. Burned up the 50 hours of 182 time I bought, then flew the heck out of the S. Dec. , lots of what I called unusual conditions and upset training(my wife said no aerobatics). Earned my IFR and ME in a leased DA42 flew it for the rest of the 90 days then gave it back. For my next step I went against the prevailing wisdom and bought a low serial number partially updated Eclipse 500 from a bank. Unit had been surrendered after the owner died. Market has so punished the values on the early Eclipses that I couldn't have bought a new 182 for what I paid. I spent more on my initial training than the return to airworthiness cost for the plane. I have since logged over 200 hours in the Eclipse. The first 30 were with an approved mentor, the next 100 or so with an experienced CJ pilot tagging along (he has thousands of hours single pilot but is not type rated in the Eclipse, yet). Plan is to just keep flying this unit as is until alternate upgrade options become available or I can justify trading it in to Eclipse on a 550. This is really a ton of airplane for what I paid 375 knots on 50 GPH or throttle way back and do 300 knots on 35 GPH all above the weather.
The consulting business bought a pair of Westwinds for about the cost of a single new 172 from a long time corporate operator that closed their flight department and was just happy to get them off the books for their fiscal year end. One has a two year old interior and electronics and is doing most of the flying, second is airworthy with freshly done engines but rough inside so it is being disassembled. Operating costs have been ridiculously cheap with almost no unexpected costs, both came totally naked. The plan is to finish disassembling and scrapping the spare bird in the next 90 days, then use the nice example until the spares are exhausted or all four engines are run out.
The consulting business bought a pair of Westwinds for about the cost of a single new 172 from a long time corporate operator that closed their flight department and was just happy to get them off the books for their fiscal year end. One has a two year old interior and electronics and is doing most of the flying, second is airworthy with freshly done engines but rough inside so it is being disassembled. Operating costs have been ridiculously cheap with almost no unexpected costs, both came totally naked. The plan is to finish disassembling and scrapping the spare bird in the next 90 days, then use the nice example until the spares are exhausted or all four engines are run out.