Gear up in a 172RG

Dave Siciliano

Dave Siciliano

Final Approach
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Feb 27, 2005
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Dave Siciliano
This plane is for sale on e-bay. On the listing there is a video of a gear up landing. Fella on the AOPA board claims to know the guys flying, each a high time CFI. How does one miss the gear horn?

http://tinyurl.com/2s9nug

Best,

Dave
 
During commercial training I yelled at my CFI to shut that noise off while I tried to land the thing. :)

Of course, this was a 182RG. Just a tad heavier. Okay, seven hundred pounds heavier.

Someone had posted that video once before, I think from Youtube. I recall the guy throwing his hands up on the glare shield in surprise or disgust. As if the horn wasn't some sort of clue?

It doesn't look that bad but I'd bet it would still cost a pretty penny to bring it up to specs. I noticed the time quoted is the Hobbs time. I can't see the tach clearly in the one picture that shows it.
 
There are three conditions under which the gear horn will chime in on my plane.

1. Below a set manifold pressure with gear up.
2. Full flaps down with gear up.
3. Gear switch up while on the ground.

In each case, the squawking has a simple remedial action which will silence it. <g>

Best,

Dave
 
In our 182RG, it's:
  1. Manifold Pressure "below approximately twelve inches."
  2. Flaps extended beyond 25 degrees (setting detents are 10, 20 & 40)
An alert for the gear lever while on the ground would be a great idea in case someone climbed in and grabbed things. We do have a policy of turning the plane only by the tow bar. Pressure is never taken off the nose gear squat switch.
 
KennyFlys said:
In our 182RG, it's:
  1. Manifold Pressure "below approximately twelve inches."
  2. Flaps extended beyond 25 degrees (setting detents are 10, 20 & 40)
An alert for the gear lever while on the ground would be a great idea in case someone climbed in and grabbed things. We do have a policy of turning the plane only by the tow bar. Pressure is never taken off the nose gear squat switch.
Click to expand...

Same on the 172RG I cannot remember though if raising the gear lever on the ground will fire off the horn, I don't have a PIM here to look that up. But it is probably the same as the 182RG

Ont eh 182RG you don't use the handles by the tail at all to lift the nose off the ground and then walk the plane into the direction you want? I loved that about the 182RG!!
 
KennyFlys said:
In our 182RG, it's:
  1. Manifold Pressure "below approximately twelve inches."
  2. Flaps extended beyond 25 degrees (setting detents are 10, 20 & 40)
An alert for the gear lever while on the ground would be a great idea in case someone climbed in and grabbed things. We do have a policy of turning the plane only by the tow bar. Pressure is never taken off the nose gear squat switch.
Click to expand...

I always have an uneasy feeling in retracts. Checking/Double Checking the gear lever before hitting the master on, always expecting the gear to collapse during landing.. I have a feeling being a little "uneasy" in them might be the secret to not gearing up.
 
In our former 172RG, the tone wasn't typical and depended on the audio panel functioning correctly. My checklist always included a visual of the gear down and in place. Yeah, I know I can't see the nose gear.

They say, when it comes to retractables it's not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when" you will have a gear-up. I still think that's an OWT (old wives tale).
 
the gear horn is pretty audible on the 182RG. speaking of that, had my first flight in ours today, since the nose gear collapse. everything held together well.
 
Barring the unforeseen (failure that takes out a primary and a backup method of lowering the landing gear) there is just no excuse for gearing up an airplane. While I haven't studied 1500 NTSB reports today on accidental gear ups (and I won't tomorrow either), I think I'd find that most of these events are the result of either no SOP in place, or that SOP was somehow interupted by some type of distraction and that error was never trapped and rectified.
Gears up, running out of gas and taxiing into objects on the airport just don't have to happen but they do. All are preventable accidents/incidents that can be mitigated away through good planning and establishment of good habit patterns and a method of cross check especially when flying single pilot.
Equipment is generally pretty reliable when we take care of it and use it properly.
 
jdwatson said:
In our former 172RG, the tone wasn't typical and depended on the audio panel functioning correctly. My checklist always included a visual of the gear down and in place. Yeah, I know I can't see the nose gear.
Click to expand...
My 182 RG has a gear mirror on the right wing where I can see both mains and the nose gear. Granted, I can't insure it's down and locked, but can see it's in place. The Cessna Pilots Association has them for sale.
 
Fast n' Furious said:
Barring the unforeseen (failure that takes out a primary and a backup method of lowering the landing gear) there is just no excuse for gearing up an airplane. While I haven't studied 1500 NTSB reports today on accidental gear ups (and I won't tomorrow either), I think I'd find that most of these events are the result of either no SOP in place, or that SOP was somehow interupted by some type of distraction and that error was never trapped and rectified.
Gears up, running out of gas and taxiing into objects on the airport just don't have to happen but they do. All are preventable accidents/incidents that can be mitigated away through good planning and establishment of good habit patterns and a method of cross check especially when flying single pilot.
Equipment is generally pretty reliable when we take care of it and use it properly.
Click to expand...

I disagree dude. Well, sort of.

Your reasoning behind why gear ups happen is sound. But inexcusable? It happens to the best pilots on a bad day. They've done everything right, but something distracts them at the wrong time, or they're fatigued and pull a stupid or something.

It happens, it sucks, but it happens.
 
Fast n' Furious said:
Gears up, running out of gas and taxiing into objects on the airport just don't have to happen but they do. All are preventable accidents/incidents that can be mitigated away through good planning and establishment of good habit patterns and a method of cross check especially when flying single pilot.
Click to expand...
I knew there was a reason they drilled it into me to do a flow on downwind, base, final and short final! Oh yeah, look out there for clear final while on base. Nothing beats a good flow pattern followed by verification with the checklist.
 
jdwatson said:
In our former 172RG, the tone wasn't typical and depended on the audio panel functioning correctly. My checklist always included a visual of the gear down and in place. Yeah, I know I can't see the nose gear.

They say, when it comes to retractables it's not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when" you will have a gear-up. I still think that's an OWT (old wives tale).
Click to expand...

I agree (with the OWT part). Exactly zip, zero, nada, none of the pilots I know who regularly fly retracts have ever had an inadvertent gear up landing. That said, I can see how it could happen if a distraction managed to coincide with a gear malfunction. I've never come close to landing without putting the gear down first, but I know I've made a landing or two without checking the gear.
 
Tom Turner at ABS sent me a preliminary DVD he has prepared to address this. We reviewed it a SIMCOM and had a few suggestions.

Seems to be failure to follow procedures; complacency or lack of familiarization with the equipment (or some combination). The last two are difficult for me to forgive. That's what recently occurred in a place where I was on the accident committee. They failed to follow procedures and were complacent.

Pilot recalls lowering the gear, but did not check for three greens. Instructor never verified three greens. Neither recalls hearing the gear horn. The gear motor circuit breaker had popped because they overloaded that circuit earlier. Both failed to recognize the problem. There are a number of things that occur when the gear is lowered: distinctive sounds, change in pitch and wind noise; change in air speed; gear in transit light; then three greens.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
They failed to follow procedures and were complacent.
Click to expand...
As a recent commercial student doing a lot of emergency landings, you find the horn going off for quite some time and it is indeed possible to get complacent... which is why you keep a checklist in front of your face!

There are a number of things that occur when the gear is lowered: distinctive sounds, change in pitch and wind noise; change in air speed; gear in transit light; then three greens.
Click to expand...
Back to constant flows verified by the checklist. But, if you don't know to expect a significant amount of drag when the gear comes down, you're definitely not paying attention and don't know the plane you're flying. When I lower gear, my hand stays on the lever until I see the green and look at them down on the side. Next, my hand goes for the trim wheel to compensate for the drag pushing the nose over. It's all part of knowing what to expect when something happens. I think they call it... "Being ahead of the airplane"?
 
KennyFlys said:
A When I lower gear, my hand stays on the lever until I see the green and look at them down on the side.
Click to expand...

I use the same method, but can you say with absolute certainty that you wouldn't take your hand off the gear handle prematurely if the door popped open right after you put the switch down, or worse yet there was a big bang and flames started coming out of the left nacelle?
 
KennyFlys said:
Nothing beats a good flow pattern followed by verification with the checklist.
Click to expand...
Ken has it right. Almost every gear-up incident involves either failure to establish/use standard procedures for arrival which include lowering the gear at a certain point in the procedure, or an interruption of the procedure/flow without re-establishing it (e.g., being extended on downwind and either not lowering or even raising the gear to "save gas"). That's why, for example, I teach "gear down" as part of the approach configuration procedure for IFR ops (and you'll never make the attitude/power/speed numbers work right if you don't).
 
KennyFlys said:
I knew there was a reason they drilled it into me to do a flow on downwind, base, final and short final! Oh yeah, look out there for clear final while on base. Nothing beats a good flow pattern followed by verification with the checklist.
Click to expand...

Absolutely ! I've incorporated flow-checklist method in all the planes I rent. Even if they don't retract. My flow is left to right, call-out for the checklist, verify with checklist. Anytime there's a configuration change (including just power), I run the flow. I was taught to do 3 GUMP checks. downwind, base and final. I also, don't "clean up" until I'm off the runway and stopped. Eyes outside until we've crossed the line on the taxiway.

Like Ron's students, I was also taught that gear down is part of the IFR approach configuration. My procedure is to drop the gear inbound and established after the procedure turn for non-precision and established on the localizer for precision. For VFR traffic patterns, I drop them at TPA. For me, this gives me the time to get stable and trimmed up.

Granted if I start flying planes that are higher performance or twins I might have to tweak this procedure. So far, it has served me well.
 
Last edited:
Ron Levy said:
...even raising the gear to "save gas"...
Click to expand...
There are pilots who actually do this?!?! It defies logic!

You're doubling your workload, tearing away vision from traffic awareness and simply set yourself up to miss something. Alert sounds do fail. Switches that activate them do fail. Is approach to landing the time you want to find out it wasn't working?

Approach may be asking for best forward speed and gear down may limit that. But avoiding improper landing configuration trumps any request by approach short of a called miss. And to use fuel or Hobbs time for a reason to cut corners... that's a pilot I won't fly with. :rolleyes:
 
jdwatson said:
Like Ron's students, I was also taught that gear down is part of the IFR landing configuration.[emphasis added]
Click to expand...
Just to be clear -- I teach "gear down" as part of the approach, not landing, configuration, and that the approach configuration is established at the IAF, or when within 90 degrees of the final approach course/ten miles from the FAF during vectors to final. The landing configuration (essentially the approach configuration plus extension of full flaps and setting the prop(s) to full high RPM) is not established until the decision to land is made (usually at MDA or approaching DH).
 
Ron Levy said:
Just to be clear -- I teach "gear down" as part of the approach, not landing, configuration, and that the approach configuration is established at the IAF, or when within 90 degrees of the final approach course/ten miles from the FAF during vectors to final. The landing configuration (essentially the approach configuration plus extension of full flaps and setting the prop(s) to full high RPM) is not established until the decision to land is made (usually at MDA or approaching DH).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction... I fixed my post above. I don't drop the gear at the same time as you teach, but I do drop it at the same point in my flow/checklist.
 
There was an old video from the '60s that said, "There will always be airline crashes."
Fortunately, there have been years since then without any crashes. I am not suggesting that we should be complacent.
But saying that gear-up landings should never occur is tempting fate. Good procedures and triple-checking are great. But **** happens and I would not put myself in a position to judge too quickly.
:blueplane:
ApacheBob
 
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