Garmin 430 dBase question

[ScottM]

Ok I will be getting my 430W installed in the first couple of weeks in May. They are doing it while I'll be overseas which is nice for me.

When I return I'll have the new GPS in. I currently have a King GPS and got my databases from Bendix/King. But now that I will have the Garmin wher eis the best place to get databases? Is it only from the the Garmin site or can I go straight to an 3rd party source such as Jeppesen?

Another question. How expensive is it to get a 2nd database card? I was thinking of getting a spare. That way when I update it at home I jsut swap with the one in the unit. I think that might help me avoid having to make a special trip to the airport to get the card,. bring it home, load up the new database, etc.

Also I did a quick look at the Garmin site and I saw the downloadable sim, which I will do to paly with while I am travelling. I have not looked yet but is the user manual available on line?

 

[jmaynard]

When I return I'll have the new GPS in. I currently have a King GPS and got my databases from Bendix/King. But now that I will have the Garmin wher eis the best place to get databases? Is it only from the the Garmin site or can I go straight to an 3rd party source such as Jeppesen?

Actually, you don't get it from Garmin at all. You get it straight from Jeppesen. They'll sell you a Skybound II adapter that plugs into a USB port and takes the card (the one on the left from your 430). They run a subscription special at OSH; if you're going, and don't plan to fly it IFR until then, you'll get the adapter for free with a year's subscription ($395).

Another question. How expensive is it to get a 2nd database card?

$195, IIRC.

Also I did a quick look at the Garmin site and I saw the downloadable sim, which I will do to paly with while I am travelling. I have not looked yet but is the user manual available on line?

Yes. As to how useful it is...I didn't find it useful as an introduction, but you may.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

When I return I'll have the new GPS in. I currently have a King GPS and got my databases from Bendix/King. But now that I will have the Garmin wher eis the best place to get databases? Is it only from the the Garmin site or can I go straight to an 3rd party source such as Jeppesen?

You only get them from Jepp. We pay $785/yr for a 430W with the Americas database and a GX55 with the US/Canada data. The 430W data costs more (there's more of it too) but I can't remember the exact breakdown.

Edit: Garmin says here that the annual service fee for the Jepp database right now is only $295! (Hmm, I'm gonna have to call Jepp.) Also, the Jepp database contains navaid/airport/etc. type info. There are also terrain and obstacle databases that you do purchase from Garmin. http://shop.garmin.com/aviation/databases/

Another question. How expensive is it to get a 2nd database card? I was thinking of getting a spare. That way when I update it at home I jsut swap with the one in the unit. I think that might help me avoid having to make a special trip to the airport to get the card,. bring it home, load up the new database, etc.

For whatever reason, they don't list cards under the "Accessories" on their web site. You'd probably have to ask your avionics shop.

Also I did a quick look at the Garmin site and I saw the downloadable sim, which I will do to paly with while I am travelling. I have not looked yet but is the user manual available on line?

The main manual is here, but there's also a bunch of other stuff (quick reference, training guides, etc.) here.

 

[mantakos]

Edit: Garmin says here that the annual service fee for the Jepp database right now is only $295!...

That looks like the pricing for Garmin handhelds.

Last I checked, Jeppesen is the sole source for both the databases and spare data cards for the 430. They were charging $150 for a 430W navdata card about a year or two ago. I would also check on ebay for used cards. Note that the 430 and 430W take different navdata cards, and that the navdata and terrain cards are also different from each other, despite looking similar.

Having two cards is, by far, the easiest way to go, so you program at home, then just swap at the airport. But if you have a windows laptop, you can download the database onto your laptop at home, take it to the airport, and program the card there. Programming is slow, maybe 15 or 20 minutes.
-harry

 

[ScottM]

Ok I may have finally found a reason to add Windoze to my MAC. That would be to run the software and download dB's for the 430W.

So any of you Mac guys here also happen to be using JSUM software and Jep card writer with a Mac running windoze? Any pitfalls?

 

[jmaynard]

Ok I may have finally found a reason to add Windoze to my MAC. That would be to run the software and download dB's for the 430W.

So any of you Mac guys here also happen to be using JSUM software and Jep card writer with a Mac running windoze? Any pitfalls?

I was not able to get it to work under Parallels Desktop. I wound up having to keep an old piece of crap Dell laptop around for dealing with Garmin stuff - not just the 430, but my 496 as well.

For me, JSUM runs and downloads the update, but refuses to actually talk to the Skybound II to write the card.

 

[ScottM]

VMware Fussion works perfect! Parallels does not! Bootcamp will also work.

I loaded VMware Fussion and Windoze Vista today and got that all running. I added the JSUM software, I am still waiting for my reader from Jep, and jsut for fun Golden Eagle. Is there anything I need to configure on Fusion to make sure that the JSUM software talks to the USB ports and then to the card adapter?

 

[ScottM]

Just a note that I am using XP - have not tried Vista.
My experience with Fusion is that if it is running and you hook up a USB
device it will mount it and not ask you. It's possible it might want to install
the JSUM driver the first time but then it's Automatic.
Parallels would pop up a window saying do you want this device to run
on Mac or the Virtual Machine (Parallels).
VMware if running just mounts the device and never asks if you want it
mounted in Mac.
Since it is so fast - 2 or 3 minutes for the whole thing - I try to avoid doing other task until it finishes. I close JSUM after it Verifies the card. It pops up and says card is ready to use but I don't think that message stays up very long.
Then right click on task bar usb/hardware symbol on right and eject the reader and unplug. Done - faster than my older windows machine did it!

I got my skybound adapter today. I do not yet have my data cards from the 430W. But here is what I did.

I had already loaded and installed JSUM onto my native Vista machine and onto my Mac running VMFusion.

The Vista machine recognized the skybound adapter and loaded the driver without incident. The blue LED stayed lite once everything was installed.

I then booted up the Mac and started up VMFusion and Vista. The same exact thing happened on the MAC as on the native Vista machine. I take that all as a good sign.

 

[sba55]

I was not able to get it to work under Parallels Desktop. I wound up having to keep an old piece of crap Dell laptop around for dealing with Garmin stuff - not just the 430, but my 496 as well.

For me, JSUM runs and downloads the update, but refuses to actually talk to the Skybound II to write the card.

Btw., in cases like these, using Bootcamp to boot LooseDows directly will work just fine.

 

[ScottM]

I spoke with the installer yesterday to get an update as to how everything was going with the install.

They got all the old stuff out and the only problem they ran into was some bad connections on the audio panel that they needed to clean up. Just before I bought my plane the avionics were stolen out of it at Sun N Fun and insurance had all new ones put in. I can't help wondering if the jerks who stole stuff did some damage that was just sorta patched up. But at any rate the tech told me he is ready to start installing the 430W and it should be ready by the end of next week.

I can't wait to fly it.

I have been reading the manual and playing with the sim. It is different than the King unit I have. But I have used three other GPS, all King, so the fundamentals are there. It is just learning the menus and such so far. I do admit I like some of the displays on the King units a little better. I see that I can customize the 430W displays and I might be able to duplicate what I like on the King.

I do have a question about holds on the 430W.

On my 90B once you put it into OBS mode that is it, no more tuning the CDI to change course and no sequence of waypoints which was different than the 89B and 94 BTW. On the 430W when you hit OBS can you 'tune' a course with the OBS? Once in the hold do you just fly the race track on the screen or do you fly like you would normally do a hold i.e. getting the timing right on the inbound leg?

 

[John Collins]

I do have a question about holds on the 430W.

On my 90B once you put it into OBS mode that is it, no more tuning the CDI to change course and no sequence of waypoints which was different than the 89B and 94 BTW. On the 430W when you hit OBS can you 'tune' a course with the OBS? Once in the hold do you just fly the race track on the screen or do you fly like you would normally do a hold i.e. getting the timing right on the inbound leg?

The OBS button has multiple functions, depending on what you are doing at the time. When navigating to a fix, it acts the same as with the 90B, that is it toggles between OBS mode and leg mode. When in OBS mode, the CDI/HSI OBS setting selects the course to the waypoint with a map presentation of magenta course line to the waypoint and a white course line from the waypoint.

If you are flying a depicted hold on the 430W that is part of the approach, once in the hold, the OBS toggles SUSP on and off. If you want to make multiple turns in the hold, make sure SUSP remains on or toggle it on. If SUSP is not on when you approach the hold fix, the 430W will exit the hold and move to the next leg of the approach.

After you reach the MAP on an approach, the 430W will annunciate SUSP. Once it has annunciated SUSP, the OBS button may be used to initiate navigation guidance for the missed approach procedure. Press it once and only once and only after SUSP is displayed above the OBS button. If you press it before it displays SUSP or after you have turned it off, you will mess things up and enter OBS mode described above.

Once in the MAP hold, the 430W will again display SUSP, however, pressing OBS in this case will have no effect.

 

[poadeleted20]

On the 430W when you hit OBS can you 'tune' a course with the OBS?

Yes, if the CDI button is in the GPS mode. If the CDI button is in the VLOC mode, you have to dial it with the knobs on the GPS itself.

Once in the hold do you just fly the race track on the screen or do you fly like you would normally do a hold i.e. getting the timing right on the inbound leg?

That depends on the hold. You'll have to check the chart for how the hold is defined.

If it's a GPS hold with (typically) 4nm legs, you should fly the hold as depicted. If you have an autopilot with roll steering, it will fly you all the way around on the magenta line (or as close as it can, given the winds).

If it's not a GPS hold, the old-fashined timed inbound leg applies. In that case, the GPS will size the depicted hold for both length and width based on your actual ground speed and standard rate turns at that speed. The problem with that is the unit isn't quite smart enough to figure wind. For example, if you higher have a tailwind on the outbound, it will tell you to start the turn in to put you 1 minute from the fix based on that outbound GS. When you complete the turn and now have a headwind, you'll be more than 1 minute from the fix.

In either case, crosswinds will affect your ability to stay on the magenta track if you fly the magenta line outbound. If you have a wind from the holding side and fly the outbound leg on the track, you'll overshoot the inbound turn unless you use more than standard rate in that turn, but you'll have to ease to less than standard rate for the outbound turn to get all the way out to the magenta line. Likewise, with a crosswind from the non-holding side, at standard rate, you'll overshoot the outbound turn and undershoot the inbound turn. If you're using a roll-steering autopilot, it will take care of staying on the line OK in the undershoot situations by reducing bank angle, but can't do much about the overshoot because of the bank angle command limits in the autopilot, although it will re-intercept once it gets turned around.

 

[ScottM]

Looks like I need another card programmer, from Garmin, to update the obstruction database too?

Do you guys update that on a regular basis?

 

[jmaynard]

Looks like I need another card programmer, from Garmin, to update the obstruction database too?

Yes.

Do you guys update that on a regular basis?

No. I haven't updated mine at all. I might update that every other year, but it doesn't change that much.

 

[mantakos]

Do you guys update that on a regular basis?

In my flying club, we decided to update the obstacle databases once a year, which seemed like a reasonable compromise.
-harry