Fossett's newest record

Matthew said:
I've never flown a gilder. On an average day, with average equipment, what kind of altitude and duration can you get?
Matt
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On the US East Coast, you normally gain altitude circling in thermals. Thermals are usually found under cumulous clouds. So basically, the base of the cumulous cloud is the highest you can go. Flying vintage/classic gliders, we can usually get to 3-4000 feet agl. 6000 on a good day. The state-of-the-art glass ships might be able to go higher.

In the mountains, when there is wind, there is mountain wave, and even a vintage/classic ship can get to 10-20,000 ft.

... Bill
 
Lets see here...
50,699ft / 200fpm = 4.2hrs to get down.
Monopoly anyone?

I really hope the spoilers didn't get stuck in the closed position.
 
fgcason said:
Lets see here...
50,699ft / 200fpm = 4.2hrs to get down.
Monopoly anyone?

I really hope the spoilers didn't get stuck in the closed position.
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That's the most fpm (200) down they can go down without exceeding Va or Vne?
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
That's the most fpm (200) down they can go down without exceeding Va or Vne?
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No clue. Just taking a wild guess based on the number I heard a glider pilot talking about and seeing the vsi on a sailplane video between thermals.
It's probably more like minimum sink rate. Maybe I should go get a glider rating and figure it out.
 
fgcason said:
Lets see here...
50,699ft / 200fpm = 4.2hrs to get down.
Monopoly anyone?
Click to expand...

Relief tube, anyone? Sounds like an Immodium commercial in the making...
 
200 fpm is maybe their minimum sink. with full airbrakes and high speed, they can come down much faster, >1000 feet a minute. still a long ride down.

Fawcett has been working on this for a while, I hope it holds up.

This is no where near a typical flight, even a typical wave flight. Most of the guys flying in the wave out in the rockies or sierra nevadas are typically getting 20-25,000 MSL

as far as relief tubes, they are probably built in to the NASA style partial pressure suits that fawcett bought for the attempt. Basically that was his main contribution to the project. Those things are expensive!

Congrats, im hoping for 6,000 MSL tommorow in the Cherokee, should be enough to go a long ways downwind, stand by for flight report!
 
The more I think about it, the more I think I gotta get me some glider time!

What's the trickiest part of getting started in one of those things? I understand that, with experience, you get a better eye for the weather and lift generating conditions, but how about just the basics of handling the aircraft?
 
Lets say that will the airbrakes fully deployed and a full turning slip at high speed you can see a descent rate of 1500fpm. Easily done. Now say you do this in the sink around a strong thermal (where 1000fpm down is common). Your combined total sink rate displayed on the vsi (if it could show it) would be 2500fpm. Down currents in a strong wave system can easily top 2000fpm. Now we're up to 4500fpm. In strong wave systems that's childs play.

One glider I've flown will go straight down without exceeding redline if the brakes are out at 150mph. I think that's about 13000fpm.

On the other hand lets consider climb rates. On Tony's thermal flight today he will probably have average climb rates around 200-400fpm. In good conditions in the midwest 1000fpm is typical. In strong thermals in the high desert regions 1500-2000fpm is common. Strong wave lift over the mountains has been known to exceed 3000fpm. A few hardy souls have climbed in Cb updrafts at 5000fpm and lived to tell about it.

By the way Tony, those suits Fossett is using are FULL pressure garments, not partials. These are pretty much the same space suits that U-2, SR-71, and shuttle jockys fly with. I don't think David Clark Company will sell them either. If you are special enough you can rent them or so I'm told.

MM
 
wby0nder said:
One glider I've flown will go straight down without exceeding redline if the brakes are out at 150mph. I think that's about 13000fpm.
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How well could you land that glider if those air brakes were to get stuck in the deployed state. Something tells me that glider would be quite the brick.

Of course I highly doubt that could possibly happen. But you never know.
 
jangell said:
How well could you land that glider if those air brakes were to get stuck in the deployed state. Something tells me that glider would be quite the brick.

Of course I highly doubt that could possibly happen. But you never know.
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Actually it's not at all uncommon to land with the brakes fully deployed in a normal approach though usually you shoot for less than fully deployed in the flare. For entertainment I've started final at 1000 over the numbers with the brakes out all the way out and stopped in the first 1000 feet easily. Got to have Vne limiting brakes to do that which not all gliders have.

The first time I experienced a Vne limited dive brake descent was in a ship who's brakes would not retract if you were pulling a few G's. You discover this when you begin to pull out of the breathtaking dive and you cant close the brakes. For a second you think you are going to just keep on going down like a skydiver who's asleep at the switch. I was with an instructor who said, "oh yea on this one you have to unload first (as he pushed the stick forward) and close the brakes before pulling out." It was a non event but for an instant it really got my attention!

MM
 
jangell said:
How well could you land that glider if those air brakes were to get stuck in the deployed state. Something tells me that glider would be quite the brick.

Of course I highly doubt that could possibly happen. But you never know.
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I would think that at a typical landing speed the brakes would be having little effect. They are designed to slow an a/c from higher speeds. The PreciseFlight speed brakes on Mooneys for example, can be left deployed all the way through landing.
 
Frank Browne said:
I would think that at a typical landing speed the brakes would be having little effect. They are designed to slow an a/c from higher speeds. The PreciseFlight speed brakes on Mooneys for example, can be left deployed all the way through landing.
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Speed is a secondary (and unwanted ) effect of airbrakes on sailplanes (except in the case of Vne limiting which few have). The primary effect is to decrease lift so that you can increase your descent rate and glide angle for approach without increasing your speed. Glider wings are so efficient especially in ground effect that you will use up an awful lot of runway trying to get it stopped without airbrakes.

On a normal approach in most gliders with say half airbrakes deployed, you suddenly close them in the flare and you will balloon upwards several feet if not more and increase your landing run by 2X easily.

MM
 
Matthew said:
What's the trickiest part of getting started in one of those things? I understand that, with experience, you get a better eye for the weather and lift generating conditions, but how about just the basics of handling the aircraft?
Click to expand...

I'd say the trickest part is making sure you can make it back to the airport. It's not really that hard. You always plan to be at the pattern entry point at 1000 feet. The farther you are away, the higher you have to be. You're always monitoring you Vertical Speed Indicator so you know if you are climbing or sinking, and at what rate. You also have to know what your glider is capable of. If you're in a glass ship, you lose altitude slowly and climb easier. If you are in a vintage trainer, you lose altitude fast and only climb in a strong thermal. If there are a lot of thermals, you dont' have to worry as much because you can always gain some altitude. But if thermals are sparse or weak, then you have to be more careful about getting too far from the field.

If you are going cross-country, and you can't find thermals, then you get to "land out". It's not a major deal because gliders don't need a lot of room to land and they are designed for easy disassembly and load onto a trailer.

The thing about gliders is that you are always "flying the plane". And when I say flying, I mean elevator, ailerons and rudder. The tow requires intense concentration. When you are thermalling, you are in a pretty good bank, with speed just above stalling. You are always adjusting your pitch, bank and yaw. You're always keeping track of where you are and if you can make it back to the field. And there are usually other gliders about that you have to keep track of. It's not unusual for multiple gliders to be circling in the same thermal. You get used to being a lot closer to other planes than you do flying just power.

In a nutshell, it's flying that requires a lot of thinking always. It's very similiar to sailing, in that it is challenging trying to accomplish something where your only resources are the environment and your knowledge. Then you can get into competition soaring, and compete against the environment AND other people.

What's nice about gliders is that you don't have to worry about losing your engine. You don't have one!

... Bill
 
Bill,

Oh, man! Now I'm getting hooked.

I used to live in Colorado Springs a long time ago and used to drive through the Air Force Academy once in a while. During the summer, their training field had gliders all over the ground, as well as in the air. I'd watch as best I could as they'd circle to stay inside the thermals and then make the jump from one to the next.

I had the good fortune of having a primary CFI who would turn my airplane into a glider several times each training flight. While it got to be quite a nuisance after a while, it did make me become very aware of the surrounding areas and wind conditions, as well as altitude management.

Matt
 
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