Foreflight

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Danos, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Yeah, I'm having such a hard time...

    ... surfing the web, sending e-mail, handling documents, playing games, administering the Linux boxes with SSH, doing RDP to the Winderz boxes, running aircraft specific checklists, getting weather from seven different sources, checking investments at multiple finance companies, reading news articles from ten different sources, listening to audio media, watching videos, car navigation/GPS, updating my pilot logbook, shopping online, shooting photos and posting them, and all the other "etc." on iOS devices...

    Including posting this message...

    Pretty sure it "functions" just fine.

    (The fact that it looks decent doing it is just a bonus.)

    The "Form vs. Function" phrase doesn't hold water. :rofl:
     
  2. ziege

    ziege Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Would you know? I mean, any computer can do just about anything. You could use a Commodore 64 to update Facebook. If that's all you had you might even think it was really cool and worked well. It's like the guy who has been hand washing his laundry in his bath tub all his life...he says "it gets the job done", and "it's the best way I've ever tried, way better than the sink", and he's right. His clothes may even be clean..ish. You are still better off with a washer and drier.

    I've used iOS for a couple years now. I've used Android for a similar time and HC 3.1 for over a month. I'm not a fanboy for either platform. Both have pluses and minuses and depending on your use one might be better than the other. My experienced opinion is that Android is better for day to day use even though it lacks some of the visual refinement. You can point to your clean clothes and say your bathtub is just as good, that don't make it so.
     
  3. bluesky74656

    bluesky74656 Line Up and Wait

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    I just joined the ranks of the iPad / Foreflight users. Planning a trip to North Carolina tomorrow, so we'll see how it does.
     
  4. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Cool! Enjoy! :thumbsup:
     
  5. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    Do Android devices allow for better access to the root memory? These days that is my only remaining complaint with the iPad/iPhone. Cloud computing is not quite here, here, and may not likely be here, here, for a while, at least away from Wifi. Workarounds are clunky and I ain't jailbreaking.
     
  6. piper140

    piper140 Filing Flight Plan

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    I have not purchased Foreflight yet. I'm still deciding between Wingx. Does anyone know if Foreflight will display "track up"? All of the demo's I have seen always shows north up on the display.
     
  7. gprellwitz

    gprellwitz Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm not sure any of them will display track up; I know that Foreflight will not.

    You can also check out Garmin's Pilot MyCast, which has been enhanced to be competitive with ForeFlight and WingX Pro.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  8. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    fixed
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  9. gprellwitz

    gprellwitz Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Doh!:mad2: Dyslexic am I! You're riight, I typed it wrong. Correcting my reply now...
     
  10. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    Neither WingX nor Foreflight does.

    I like both though I let my introductory subscription to WingX lapse for now. I might revisit it when my Foreflight subscription expires in a few months. No way am I going to pay for both.

    IMO (and many other people have said) it boils down to which do you consider the more important or primary use - as a EFB and planning tool, or a heads up multifunction display and moving map GPS? Foreflight is better at the former, and WingX is better at the latter (but just barely.)

    I'd be happier if Foreflight would either increase their fonts or make them user adjustable. Hard to see in the enroute cockpit and I'm not that old :nono:
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  11. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You wouldn't like Flight Guide, then. :no: Tiny text.

    Which ones would you like to see increased/adjustable in ForeFlight?
     
  12. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    Mostly the flight log overlay on the map. Also some of the drop down menus such as the map selection menu on the map screen. Things that you are trying to read and touch while in flight.
     
  13. Jim Logajan

    Jim Logajan En-Route

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    I have WingX and Sky Charts Pro on an iPad 2. If WingX had track up I would not have purchased SkyCharts Pro (which does have track up,) even though the latter is quite cheap and simple.

    There are just two features that have been on all my hand-held GPS units since the dawn of GPS time that iPad 2 moving-map app developers seem to have a collective blind spot for:

    (1) Track up.
    (2) Bread crumb recording. Specifically the ability to record X,Y,Z,T of your motion at periodic time or distance intervals. How hard is that to do anyway!? I know that isn't on WingX (or Navigon, which I use for ground based GPS mapping.)

    Again, Sky Charts Pro has a kind-of bread crumb recording, but only as periodic emails(!)

    The sheer novelty of having moving-map anything working must have these iPad developers in a hypnotic trance, unable to move on to GPS features that have been around for years.

    Sky Pro is a nice inexpensive replacement of paper charts. You really can't map out a series of waypoints (so far as I can tell) just a simple "direct to" line to the next way point. Adequate for simple VFR flights.

    If Foreflight (or any other moving-map iPad app) could address the two issues I would buy it.
     
  14. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Show me a GPS unit that uses actual charts and does track up.

    I still think that track up on a chart on an electronic device would be really weird. But I guess if enough people ask for it...

    That would be cool. I like the data logging features on the G1000, maybe there's more than just XYZT that could be logged too.

    I don't think that's it. To me, the iPad is an EFB, not a GPS. Heck, there's probably a fair number of people with the WiFi-only iPads and no GPS. The GPS features are nice, but certainly not essential. The killer app here is getting rid of paper.

    Then again, it's "confused" a sufficient number of people, and works seemingly well enough, that replacing some of the features of aviation GPS units could be a good thing. In my mind, the three features found on something like a 496 that I'd most like to see would be in-flight weather (coming soon on ForeFlight), terrain, and the panel page. Then again, I'm not sure I trust the iPad's GPS quite enough for those last two.
     
  15. Jim Logajan

    Jim Logajan En-Route

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    I invested $20 in SkyCharts Pro which does track-up on scanned sectionals. It isn't that weird. At least not to me. A simple press of a pseudo button toggles to north-up for reading map labels.
     
  16. gprellwitz

    gprellwitz Touchdown! Greaser!

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    WingX Pro now has synthetic vision, which I think meets the Terrain feature you are looking for. http://mygoflight.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/WingXPro7-Version6-Press-Release.pdf. "Terrain and obstacles that are above or slightly below the airplane’s altitude are shaded red and yellow respectively. Also displayed are speed and altitude tapes and a Zero Pitch Line that shows the aircraft’s altitude in relation to nearby terrain." It takes advantage of a $750 external wireless AHRS. "If you do not have an AHRS device, your Synthetic Vision view will not show pitch or bank, but otherwise you will have full functionality including runways, obstacle and terrain shading etc." They also have an ADS-B in-flight weather with NEXRAD. Don't know if that includes other weather products or not.
     
  17. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Cool... But if I'm remembering correctly from my booth perusals at OSH, their red and yellow shading was completely different from the seemingly industry-standard values (red for anything within 100 feet vertically and yellow for within 1,000 feet) and instead had something like yellow within 2,000 feet and red within 1,000 feet which is not nearly as useful (I'm thinking doomsday IMC scenarios like all engines failing or on-board fire - One will potentially get you to ~100 feet AGL, the other only to ~1,000 AGL). I wish they'd either do it the way everyone else seems to, or allow the user to specify when they want things to be red vs. yellow vs. uncolored.

    :hairraise:

    Sheesh, between the $750 AHRS, the $950 ADS-B receiver, the iPad from $499-$829 and the subscription, they're starting to make Garmin look cheap... :yikes:

    Once it all starts to play together a bit more nicely, though, it'll be really cool. That's an awful lot of extra boxes lying around the cockpit, though.

    Grant, do you have a link to more info about the AHRS box?
     
  18. gprellwitz

    gprellwitz Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yeah, it's potentially a LOT of boxes scattered around the cockpit, but I think that'll be true no matter what software you're using. It looks like a) the AHRS isn't shipping (quite) yet (9/15) and b) it'll be a bit more than predicted ($795/$995, and I don't know the difference).
    Link: http://www.aviation.levil.com/AHRS_mini.htm

    But I think that the functionality still blows Garmin out of the water if it's reliable. To get all this in a single device would cost beaucoup bucks because of the very limited market. I expect that both FF and Garmin will start supporting this hardware in the relatively near future (i.e., before OSH12).
     
  19. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    Actually, WingX Pro has color-coded terrain included in the base subscription, as one of the overlays available on the base map. It is only available for the United States below the 60 parallel. They bill this as one of the main selling points over Foreflight.

    It may be nonstandard resolution for aviation uses due to the data product it is based on, a shuttle S.A.R. mapping mission a few years ago. Not sure.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2011
  20. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I know... Else I couldn't complain about it. ;)

    That's what pretty much everyone's terrain data is based on, I believe.
     
  21. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    Well, Garmin has all of Alaska and Canada too, where WingX for some reason can only offer USA below the 60th Parallel. So they may all be generated from Synthetic Aperture Radar missions (maybe) but not the same product.
     
  22. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Or is WingX being more honest in their marketing? Are you above the 60th parallel? There's some GPS weirdness at the poles, isn't there? The G1000 is not certified to operate (at all, not just terrain) in the northern extremes either.
     
  23. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    Well the terrain shading overlay stops abruptly at the 60th. When I queried Hilton Software they said that was because the data they had stopped there.

    I get full terrain on my 296.
     
  24. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Huh... Interesting.

    Still, if they can do the shading based on HAT at all, they've got to be able to change the thresholds.
     
  25. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The 60th parallel is the northern border of the Canadian provinces.
     
  26. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    GPS works fine at any lattitude AFaIK but the G1000 likely has trouble (as do many solid state AHRSs) up there because it relies on magnetic heading for stabilization.
     
  27. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    OK, the latest versions still have this "issue", so I sent them a message to "bump to the top" (remind them of the request). I also asked for any workaround they might know of.

    Turns out, you can put the request in QUOTES, and it will act as expected.

    That is, searching for "ASPEN" or "PROVO" instead of just ASPEN or PROVO will get you the city / airport list instead of taking you back to the map page centered on a matching intersection name. :thumbsup:
     
  28. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Friend has Ipad "1", will FF work?
     
  29. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If my CPA and best friend from childhood participated in this forum (which is unlikely since he's not a pilot and doesn't know squat about airplanes) he would look you squarely in the eye and slowly say "Troy . . . you are a genius.";)

     
  30. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Works on mine.

    Troy, nice find on the quotation marks. I hadn't thought of that and it's annoying when you can't find a city name.
     
  31. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes, works fine on mine.
     
  32. p51tony2

    p51tony2 Filing Flight Plan

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    Will it work with the Apple iPad Touch 32GB MP3 Player??
     
  33. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think you mean "iPod Touch".

    From their website:

    If your iPod Touch is on firmware 4.0 or later, you should be good. I can't tell if 3G is required, or is a second option?
     
  34. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    If you mean the iPod Touch, yes, so long as it is third generation or newer, running iOS 4.0 or higher. You'll need to buy an external GPS unit for in-cockpit functionality, see other threads here on which GPS device people prefer ( there are only two or three models realistically, either connecting via Bluetooth or by your Apple device's 30 pin dock port.)
     
  35. alaskaflyer

    alaskaflyer Final Approach

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    By 3G they mean third generation. You can't get cell data on an iPod touch.
     
  36. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yeah, I know, that's why it confused me.
     
  37. huckv

    huckv Filing Flight Plan

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    Looking at the feature list for WingX on the app store, I can tell you what it does that ForeFlight doesn't currently do:

    * Terrain
    * CDI
    * E6B (but you should get Jesse's E6B Pro app anyway. ;))
    * FARs
    * The split-screen view

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Is it hard for foreflight to include terrain? I find it really important. I use foreflight presently and, true, its great. I am in the process of making the iPad my "yoke-mount", replacing my iQue3600A, which I bought a few years back, because it was the cheapest with terrain.
     
  38. huckv

    huckv Filing Flight Plan

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    Looking at the feature list for WingX on the app store, I can tell you what it does that ForeFlight doesn't currently do:

    * Terrain
    * CDI
    * E6B (but you should get Jesse's E6B Pro app anyway. ;))
    * FARs
    * The split-screen view

    ------------------------------------------------------

    I find terrain really important. Why is it so hard to implement?
     
  39. Mike5250

    Mike5250 Line Up and Wait

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    Does anyone know of a way to get any of these apps to display the map like any of the Garmin units? It seems like they all use the sectional map instead of an option for a basemap/ airports/airspace, etc (similar to when you use the clear button on a garmin 430/530 to go through how detailed you want it to display)

    Its nice to "de-clutter" and show just the basics.

    I have use skychartspro and have tried out garmin app and fore flight. Garmin customer support said they will only be offering the sectional map view.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 7, 2012
  40. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    I guess it's all in what you get used to. I used an old Garmin LCD before FF. I prefer FF about 10 to 1 over the old Garmin.

    With FF, you can select the World Map instead of the sectional, but then you don't see much of anything except bodies of water, your route, your location, major highways and weather or imagery overlay.