Foreflight

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Danos, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. Danos

    Danos Line Up and Wait

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    Does any one have any experience with Foreflight? I was wondering how it compares to Anywhere Map or Wing X. It looks to be a similiar application.
     
  2. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    Talk to Kent.

    When I get around to buying an iPad, I am going to subscribe.
     
  3. HPNPilot1200

    HPNPilot1200 En-Route

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    I have it on my iPod touch. It's awesome. PM or email me with any specific questions.
     
  4. t0r0nad0

    t0r0nad0 Pattern Altitude

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    Ditto.
     
  5. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yup. I am a happy user, beta-tester, and oh-crap-we-don't-have-enough-employees-to-keep-up-with-the-demand-at-Oshkosh booth demo guy. ;)

    I don't see Anywhere Map (or AnywhereMap) on the app store at all... :confused:

    As for WingX, the cost alone would make the difference for me. ForeFlight gives you full functionality including all Sectional, TAC, Low and High Enroute charts, approach plates, airport diagrams and data, etc. for $75/year. WingX appears to require a $99.95/year subscription to WingX plus a $399/year subscription to Seattle Avionics' ChartData service to get the same things.

    Looking at the feature list for WingX on the app store, I can tell you what it does that ForeFlight doesn't currently do:

    * Terrain
    * CDI
    * E6B (but you should get Jesse's E6B Pro app anyway. ;))
    * FARs
    * The split-screen view

    Unfortunately, with no particular experience with WingX I can't give you a similar list for what it doesn't do...

    What I can tell you is that I've been using ForeFlight for quite a while, and some things have become obvious:

    1) ForeFlight "gets" UI design. Their app conforms to Apple's Mobile Human Interface Guidelines very well, so it will work like you expect it to. Touch to pan, pinch to zoom, etc. just like the Google Maps app.

    2) ForeFlight is written by pilots who are enthusiasts of aviation and Apple gadgets. They use their app to fly in small airplanes on a regular basis. Thus, they constantly make great improvements and they have a good focus on quality. So, ForeFlight is not only easy and intuitive to use, it is also stable and fast. It's good enough that I am comfortable flying with ForeFlight as my main source of information. I do fly mostly GPS-equipped airplanes - The panel GPS is primary for navigation but secondary for information, and I use ForeFlight to follow along on the charts. But, even without GPS I would feel comfortable using ForeFlight as my sole source of information in a VFR or "easy IFR" environment. (On a day like today where everything around is right at ILS minimums, I'm gonna at least print out some plates - And the latest version of ForeFlight supports Apple's new AirPrint technology for doing just that.)

    3) I hinted at it just now, but they're constantly making improvements! Just one year ago (before I was a beta tester), we had the ForeFlight guys on The Pilotcast to talk about their just-released version 3.0... One year later, version 3.8 was just released (and there have been .1, .2, .3, .4, .5, .6, and .7 updates as well as some x.x.1 bug-fix releases) and we now have a HUGE list of new features, among which the touch-planning feature is probably the most notable. Oh, and a year ago the iPad hadn't even been announced, but ForeFlight "HD" was there in the app store on day 1 when it shipped and has been continually improved since.

    4) Service. Like I mentioned, the ForeFlight crew are small airplane pilots like most of us, and they care a great deal about providing excellent customer service to their fellow pilots. Emails are answered promptly, issues are fixed quickly, and you'll be taken care of.

    Any specific questions, feel free to post/PM/email. :)
     
  6. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    Need more info on Jessie's E6B Pro app. Thanks for the foreflight wingx compare.
     
  7. jesse

    jesse Administrator Management Council Member

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    http://www.e6bpro.com
    It includes pretty much anything you could do on a traditional E6B along with some extra stuff. Several different units for volume, mass, velocity, and pressure are supported. You can input data in one unit while getting the answer in a different unit. Answers from one function are carried over into other functions. I'm also very willing to add additional features when they're requested. Currently on sale for $2.99

    You also might want to check out my other app which is for weight and balance. It includes over 20 template aircraft plus the ability to easily configure your own custom aircraft. It's a very quick way to easily check weight and balance.
    http://www.wnbpro.com

    This video tutorial demonstrates the features and how to use it.
    http://www.wnbpro.com/tutorial.php
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
  8. Danos

    Danos Line Up and Wait

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    Thanks for the writeup and info guys! I think I'll go with this. At the end of the day it seems to be the most cost effective and overall best option for me.
     
  9. Pa28-140

    Pa28-140 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Jesse,

    I just went to your website for WnBPro. Wow! What a great app! I didn't know that it was out there. I also took the liberty of posting to a couple of other forums that I frequent. Thanks for bringing such a useful tool to the marketplace. :cheerswine:

     
  10. jesse

    jesse Administrator Management Council Member

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    Thank you. I'd appreciate a review on the App Store. It's a huge help for my sales and the app's success.
     
  11. Inverted

    Inverted Cleared for Takeoff

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    I have Foreflight and WingX, Foreflight is the clear winner.

    The WingX terrain aware moving map is pretty cool for novelty's sake, but It is largely inaccurate. Not that we should be using these for navigation anyway, but I would never trust the terrain map farther than I could throw it. I will say if I had a multiple failure situation that I would use it if nothing else was available.

    Filing and gathering flight data info is much more intuitive on Foreflight. I love 1 touch filing of stored plans, and I get emailed a full briefing within seconds. Very nice. I, on several occasions have kept the iPhone on my lap, with my filed flight plan stored and showing on the moving map. It is pretty accurate for general situational awareness. It was RIGHT ON as far as location, this was backed up with a 530, and typical glass panel equipment.

    And its cheaper, better for cheaper is a no brainer for me.
     
  12. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen Pattern Altitude

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    I have been using Foreflight for about a month and I really like it. I have never used WingX.

    Jesse, I just bought both your apps, so go have a beer on me:wink2:
     
  13. ISUHawkeye

    ISUHawkeye Pre-Flight

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    I will add another thumbs up for ForeFlight. I have used it for a few months and I think it's great!
     
  14. Danos

    Danos Line Up and Wait

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    So I downloaded it to my phone and think it's awesome. Does anyone here use the bad elf or some other gps device for the moving map?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  15. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    Foreflight... I signed up for the chart service yesterday.. GPS worked great in the truck with moving map on the way to the airport.

    Sadly, no room in the glider.. I'm getting a "kneeboard" for it soon and will be testing it under the hood in the T-41B.

    Someone mentioned envoking "airplane mode" to kill the Wifi and 3G with one key.
    Hint... it kills GPS reception too.

    Need to turn off Wifi and 3G independently to keep GPS reception. Load all the VFR /IFR Charts and and approach plates before you launch. It's all stored internal and still lots of room with the 64MB model.

    Load your charts connected to the home wifi. Wifi is faster than 3G.
     
  16. Artiom

    Artiom Pre-takeoff checklist

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    iPad has separate control of WiFi and 3G radios. Turn off them both instead of Airplane mode and that will leave GPS alive.
     
  17. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I know some people who have an external GPS receiver, but I've found that the ones already in the phone or 3G iPad are pretty decent. I've heard that when you start exceeding FL250 or 300 knots that they kind of flake out because they're just not fast enough.

    FWIW, the full data set - Sectionals, low and high enroutes, airport data, plates, etc. for CONUS, Canada, Alaska, Hawaii, carribean, etc. is about 7.5 GB. Just remember that if you're downloading everything, every 4 weeks when it rolls over you'll end up with twice that being stored for a day or two unless you wait for the old stuff to expire before downloading the new stuff. However, most people probably don't download everything.
     
  18. Danos

    Danos Line Up and Wait

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    I'm making a mount for the iPhone with a yoke clip, some Velcro and an iPhone case. Looking at doing a little test run this week under VFR unless I can get the Bluetooth then I'll make it IFR.
     
  19. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I just got about $120 worth of RAM mount parts that can be combined in various ways to mount the iPad in the cockpit (either yoke or window mounted), or in my car, or from the wall (yes, I did this already) or whatever. Very cool!
     
  20. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    The AOPA video on the iPad mentioned using Bluetooth GPS receiver to improve operation (reception) in the cockpit. I've seen cheap GPS receivers that are exactly that.. cheap.. with not good position resolution.

    What is the recommended BlueTooth receiver for the iPad.. if Foreflight is using iPad GPS.. how to slave it to BlueTooth GPS?
     
  21. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    I just grab 4 states, CA, NV, UT, AZ... VFR and IFR charts and Approach Plates.. I'll grab the rest as I need them.
     
  22. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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    People seem to be liking this one.

    http://www.amazon.com/GNS-5870-MFI-Bluetooth-Receiver/dp/B004289ZW0
     
  23. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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  24. Dave Siciliano

    Dave Siciliano Final Approach

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    I went to their site and it is, of course, Apple oriented. Anything for Android? Can I put this on a MS operating system lap top?

    Thanks,

    Dave
     
  25. Danos

    Danos Line Up and Wait

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    Dave, I know Ted uses anywhere map which ended up not bing as cost effective for me since I use all Mac gear. I was thinking of using it on the windows portion but the laptop would be too cumbersome. Not sure if you can run foreflight on the android but anywhere map is a nice program of you want to use a tablet or laptop.
     
  26. Danos

    Danos Line Up and Wait

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  27. Dave Siciliano

    Dave Siciliano Final Approach

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    Thanks; I will look into that. I'd probably have to upgrade the memory on my phone. I don't mind having back up charts on my laptop. I still get the primary charts, but hate purchasing all the approach charts for the route I'm flying over with no intention to stop. It would only be in case I had to divert somewhere unexpected.

    Best,

    Dave
     
  28. bnunn

    bnunn Filing Flight Plan

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    I have been an Anywhere Map users for several years. I still have a current subscription to their Pocket Plates software which looks really good on my Samsung 7" tablet PC. First off, the Samsung 7" tablet has a great yoke mount and fits perfectly on the yoke providing an excellent Geo-referenced approach plate. The only complaint I've had with Anywhere Map and Pocket Plates (through the years), was the hardware platforms I've run them on. First the PDA's (Windows CE), then the Samsung (Windows XP Tablet). Those devices have never been 100% reliable and I never had enough confidence to use them in hard IFR. Control Vision has blazed the trail with innovations for many years.

    That said, I love flying with my iPad and ForeFlight is my #1 aviation app. It's very doubtful that I will renew my Pocket Plate subscription with Control Vision.

    I fly a PA32 with a Garmin 396/430/530. I begin using the iPad to replace my paper charts. I still print out hard copies of my destination approach plates, but it’s comforting to know that I have electronic plates “at the ready” for the whole region available on my iPad. Foreflight is one great app. Flight planning, weather breifing, airport information, both VFR & IFR charts. At this time, I wouldn’t recommend it as a primary navigation tool, but, it can used for so many other features.

    Non pilot passengers love it. I pull up the VFR sectional and they can track exactly where we are. I was flying nighttime IMC last month, and the passengers really appreciated being able to see where we were.

    Most of my trips are conducted below 10,000 feet and last less than two hours, so I’ve experienced no overheating, lockups, or any other problems that some have reported with the iPad. Battery life has been execllent.

    In addition to my aviation apps (Foreflight, AOPA airports, FltPlan, PilotWiz, Skycharts, X-Plane, Tracker Lite, AeroWeather, iHUD, Wing-X, etc), I have regular iPad apps that my PAX can use. They can read the paper (NY Times, USA Today), play games, play slots, watch movies, and all the other 1,000′s of apps available to iPad.

    Jesse, I can hardly wait to go download your applications. My biggest problem with the iPad is getting it out of my wife's hands. She is addicted to Words With Friends and anytime someone plays her, she's grabbing it out of my hands.

    My recommendation. Get you an iPad and download Foreflight as soon as you can. If you don't use it (you will), hand it to your passengers, they'll love it.
     
  29. Inverted

    Inverted Cleared for Takeoff

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    Can you put Anywhere Map on the Samsung Galaxy tab?
     
  30. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Dave, the AnywhereMap Samsung Q1 tablet PC that I bought used has been great to have. Has the approach plates for the whole country on it. The software is windows-based, so you could put it on your laptop. On a phone I think it'd be pretty marginal, but on a laptop it'd probably be doable. On the Q1 the charts are readable, but not quite as clear as the paper charts (for me, anyway).

    I also like having the extra GPS on board in case the primary one gives out. This is especially nifty in Canada where the NDBs are the only other primary form of navigation.
     
  31. Speed

    Speed Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I ordered the GNS MFI 5870 through Amazon - works great!

    ForeFlight does take a long time to update (if you do the entire database). I've gotten to where I'll let it start an update when I leave the office, and it's done by morning. Seriously, it takes it over 4 hours on our network at the office.

    I've also had it 'crash' several times. I suppose it's a crash - the program closes itself when I try to get it to do something and I have to restart ForeFlight.

    The feature I'd really like to see is the ability to have your airplane icon move on the airport diagram while taxiing!
     
  32. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    That has got to be my number one favorite feature of Jeppview.
     
  33. Pjsmith

    Pjsmith Line Up and Wait

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    ++++++++

    Have only used it in the air once, but I'm now eyeing the lowrance as the backup
     
  34. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    I really need to send these off to Foreflight, but here's a list of things I miss having decided to dump FlightPrep/ChartCase Pro for their anti-social behavior...

    - All charts geo-referenced including Approach Plates
    - Special Use Airspace plan-view depiction (looking side on to the flight at the vertical plan), including all planned altitude changes.
    - Side-on vertical plan also includes downloaded (or with XM) real time cloud heights, coverages, etc. Depicted as real clouds. You can see scattered, broken, overcast in relationship to planned climbs and decents AND terrain.
    - Inability to have different speeds for climb, cruise, descent and intermediate climbs/descents is annoying once you've had it. A single KTAS doesn't cut it for a slog up to clear the mountains to the West, cruise, and then a Yee-Haw decent into the Western Slope. ;)
    - Integrated W&B calculations including landing weight and t/o and landing CG math and graphical
    - Memories for W&B, speeds for climb, cruise, decent, and commonly used altitudes for individual aircraft. (Besides data for equipment on board for flight plans, etc. Which Foreflight has.)
    - XM radar weather overlaid on any chart other than approach plates.
    - Vector map without an FAA chart background, just SUA, waypoints, airports, navaids, etc. Configurable as to what to display at every zoom level.
    - In-Flight updates of ETE and ETA at every waypoint still ahead on the plan including wind correction using either winds aloft downloaded prior to departure or real-time from XM and how they relate to the original plan, and whether the real winds are holding true to forecast.
    - Ability to print written flight plan kneeboard tracking form and strip charts for loss-of-gadget backup that is configurable for how many miles either side of centerline you want the strip chart pages plus all W&B, weather maps, and text DUATS briefing, configurable.
    - Reasonably accurate terrain avoidance map, colorized by current GPS altitude.
    - Split screen between any two major modes. I tended to leave the map in one, and the other was a "flipper" page between ETE/ETA chart or other data. One button on the touch screen to make either one full-screen or go back to the split as it was before.
    - Real time METARs from XM by mouse-over (finger over in my case) overlaid on FAA charts.
    - Type any FAA waypoint and easily add it to the plan... Rubber banding sucks for this in flight. Insert waypoint, type XXXXX is easier for "cleared direct Xxxxx then on course".
    - Same with ability to enter new altitude planned to see what it did to terrain/airspace along the route of flight. Did I mention that aircraft is depicted via GPS altitude on the planform view for vertical anyway, so if you were below planned altitude you could see if you were below the Bravo, etc?
    - Navaid frequencies and lat/long plus DME distances from the FAA to define intersections, etc... And having them directly displayed in the flight plan ETE/ETA view was a bonus. No zooming the chart, just switch to the list, read it, dial it into the aircraft panel, and flip back to the chart.

    That's about all the ones I utilized. The "Highway in the Sky" mode was a useless video game to me, but someone may have liked flying the airplane through the magenta boxes in 3D to get around. That was way too heads-down for me for VFR flight.

    I may be a Foreflight fan, and vowed to never send any more money to FlightPrep, but their feature list was 2x to 3x Foreflight's current list. I'd pay more for a Foreflight with these features back. My money is where my mouth is on this one.
     
  35. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Oh forgot one...
    - Line ahead of the aircraft to depict current course so you can see angle off course as soon as it happens, and half-moon angle indicator arc with angles ahead of the aircraft.

    Also, unless I've missed it...

    - Track Up vs North Up with a way to flip it to read upside down things on the chart with a single button press.
     
  36. ChrisRikli

    ChrisRikli Pre-Flight

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    If you own an iPad, buy Foreflight. It's an excellent app that, as has been mentioned, is under constant development.
     
  37. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Hey Nate,

    Some are done, some are on the list, some I'll pass along... But I have some questions and comments for you, so that I, at least, can understand what you're looking for, as well as help you use what's already in ForeFlight. (I've never used any of FlightPrep's stuff - I'm pretty much a Garmin + iPad guy.) I make no promises, I'm just a lowly beta tester.

    You should check out Jesse's excellent WnB Pro app. ;)

    ForeFlight also does have a default altitude for each aircraft. If you don't enter a flight plan altitude, the aircraft's default altitude is used to determine heading & groundspeed for the nav log, and is also entered on the flight plan filing page.

    For that, you'd have to get an XM hookup for the iPad. There's one for the iPhone for radio, but I'm not sure if it's capable of receiving the weather signal. It's also not yet compatible with the iPad, last I looked.

    Again, I have no idea what the real plans are at ForeFlight, but if I were them I'd probably skip XM and go straight to ADS-B In. I'm guessing the data arrives in two completely different formats, and the ADS-B stuff will be free whereas the XM costs an additional $30-$100/month.

    My one question on this is - Why? What advantages does it offer? And keep in mind that there are infinite "zoom levels" on the iPad when answering. ;)

    Does anything do this? I ask because anything I've used is generating ETE/ETA based on GPS data, not anybody's guess of what the winds are.

    Hmmm. Two possible scenarios here:

    1) The waypoint is already part of your plan. In that case, you can already tap on it in either the nav log or on the map. In the popup that appears, tap the direct-to button. No rubber-banding or typing. :)

    2) The waypoint is not part of your flight plan. In this case, they're going to have to give you a re-route and you're probably going to need to type it anyway. You already can type it into the text field at the top of the screen, so I'm not sure what you're asking for, unless you mean having to hit another button to bring up a dialog to type a single waypoint in? In that case, how do you tell it where in the flight plan you want that waypoint to go? :dunno:

    BTW, have you tried rubber-banding in flight? I disagree with your "it sucks" assertion, I find it much easier than typing. Do you have the iPad mounted to something, or just loose? That might make a difference too.

    I would reply in two ways: First of all, that ForeFlight is constantly under development and new features are always being added, BUT... On the other hand, it's not all about how many boxes you can check. Part of the beauty of both the iPad itself and ForeFlight is that when a feature is added, it's added in a way that makes a lot of sense and is easy to use. Many features tend to sound like a good idea and give someone a box to check in their brochure, but they end up being relatively useless in real life. I'm not saying that about your suggestions, I'm simply saying that "number of features" is not a metric that should matter - It's about what the program can actually do for you, and so the usability of a feature is just as important as the existence of that feature.

    ForeFlight displays charts - Charts are North Up. If you display a chart Track Up, all of the text you need to read is at a funny angle. ;) Do you really want to be switching it back and forth all the time? Does anything display an actual chart in Track Up? :dunno:
     
  38. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Loooong reply... sorry. Here we go! This will count as a software development cross-country if that's any condolence! ;)

    Already on the phone. Don't want to switch Apps on the iPad in-flight if I can help it. One App to Rule Them All, so to speak. ;) And remember, this is a list from memory of the portions of ... ahem, Brand X's software that I *have* used. There's more in that software, quite a bit more, and I ignore a lot of stuff in there. This is actually a "bare minimum to fully replace everything I did with Brand X" list, not a full list of their feature-set, which is about 5x as long as Foreflight's right now.

    (I also paid what, $225 less for Foreflight WITH chart updates, that weren't included with Brand X beyond an initial trial period? So the price/value is dead-on. See more about that below, but I'm willing to pay more than I've already paid for ForeFlight, but then again... it's a subscription that includes the software and updates... so I don't know how much higher. If development ever slowed... that might change the game there. But $75/year for every chart imaginable, is a steal. Personally I think they're selling themselves a touch short... but that's normal in "startup" mode. It'll be interesting to see how it all changes in a few year's time.)

    Yeah, the key here was climb, enroute, and decent speeds. Three of them, at least. Preferably the ability to set a speed for each leg of the flight. Yes the Skylane averages to a specific speed, but if I can get nice and high for an Eastbound leg out here going your way, I can pick up a nice tailwind.

    Using these speeds on the flight plan wouldn't suck either... Brand X does that, and allows different altitudes for each leg.

    Super-handy for popping over the mountains... I might have to run up to 13,500' MSL for a pop over into the San Luis Valley and Alamosa, for example, but I'm not going to stay up there and dink with the oxygen if I don't have to. 15 minutes to cross the pass, and back down. (By the way flat-landers, just put the oxygen on please. I'm acclimatized to living at 6000 MSL, but I carry the bottle and have the cannula on, and play with the wife's pulse-oximeter when I can steal it from her... fun having a nurse for a wife sometimes!)

    Brand X will allow me to make a little hop up and down, and use the climb/descent speeds at a specified climb/descent rate stored for the aircraft by tail number. All I do is enter the altitude.

    Even cooler, it'll do it in-flight... button for "Altitude Change" and it'll recalculate the rest of the leg from where you are now, based on how long it'll take you to climb to the new altitude, even if that goes beyond the next waypoint, and update the sideways plan-view, accordingly... at a glance, you can see if you're going to clear the terrain.

    Obviously you should have done that already, but let's say a controller stopped your climb... you enter the new altitude in, and look at the plan view, and ... "Denver Center, Skylane 79M... Say, that altitude will put us into terrain in 20 miles and we're going to need about 10 miles to climb up if that works out for you."

    Or whatever. You get the idea, I think.

    Understand. I'm just comparing and contrasting. Hopefully the existing Bluetooth-capable XM receivers are going to be supported by Apple and Foreflight soon thereafter. :)

    Why limit the options? Both sounds great! ;)

    (Hey, I'm just playing my typical customer here for a moment... their world is where all software and hardware development is free, happens overnight, and we don't charge them anything for the upgrade! I get to play in that world once in a while too, right? Honestly... I know better... I'd pay extra for XM. Development to add it to Foreflight would not be insignificant.)

    This is the one I'd most easily let go, but the vector map for ALERTING on Special Use Airspace -- something else I mentioned -- would still have to be developed anyway for that feature, so displaying it isn't that far past triggering alerts if you're about to cross a "line" on that mathematical map.

    Here's why it needs SUA alerts... If you scroll wrong, you can move a Class B or other airspace altitude pair "6500/SFC" off of the screen. You know you went over a line of the wedding cake... in Brand X, I can touch an edge of the line and it'll put a mouse-tip style little box next to my finger showing the data, even if the information is zoomed away, off-screen. I don't have to pan/zoom anything to get at that data... just touch the line.

    Granted, I can "scroll" my paper chart wrong too, but typically I have a lot more of the paper chart "showing" than I do the ForeFlight chart. The zoom makes my older eyeballs happier... but that also means that I can easily miss things off to the side, top, or bottom.

    Yes, well... very close. I can keep the original flight plan in PDF and instantly display it with two taps of the finger/stylus to jump menu tabs to that tab, and double-tap the printed flight plan form. (Usually it's printed and on my kneeboard for writing down waypoint crossing times and doing my own math...)

    In the "InFlight" mode of Brand X, I get a continuously updated page of all waypoints, the time to the waypoint, the ETA at the waypoint, and the ETE between legs, as well as a final arrival ETA, all updated continously... in UTC where applicable. I can compare these in real-time to the printed version. Ahead or behind, it's right there in the deltas between the numbers displayed, and the print-out on the kneeboard. (Granted, if I'm doing my job writing down the waypoint crossing times, I should have the same information already on the kneeboard.)

    Now add the split-screen feature, and I can leave this up on 1/2 of the screen, and the map/chart on the other. I have a moving map with a waypoint checklist all on one screen, with constant time/speed/distance to waypoint information updates.

    The little box you can open and close in Foreflight up near the top right seems the perfect candidate for this information. It has the flight plan, so it would be a change to update the numbers as you fly it in that box.

    I like that box, love clicking on an airport inside it as we get in range and making sure the frequencies are set up, maybe picking an approach chart, maybe take a peek at the runway layout again so I refresh what it'll look like coming in from whatever direction I'm coming from, and then going back to the map.

    If the little box of waypoints updated distance-to, ETE, ETA in there, in UTC... that'd be ultra-nifty.

    Another one along those lines though is... I can type in ANY waypoint anywhere, and before inserting it STOP, and it will have put it on the screen in the list, to get bearing and distance from that waypoint in Brand X.

    Then hit CANCEL and it does NOT get added to the flight plan.

    Great for things like, if I tune in that VOR over there off to the side of my flight planned route on the chart, what should my DME read here?

    In Foreflight, I'd have to rubber-band it in, and/or type it in, add it to the flight plan, then remove it, to get distance/bearing to that VOR.

    Nope, talking about a waypoint I've never heard of, never seen on a chart, but the controller says "Cleared into the Class Bravo, Direct JOCKI intersection, then resume own navigation." after I've offered up that I have a VFR GPS on board, or they notice it in the flight plan comments (useless these days... don't get me started... they don't even see the whole strip anymore).

    This may relate to the above-mentioned list of waypoints and ETEs and what-not... in that list, I can poke anywhere in the list, highlight a line, and then poke a button to bring up an on-screen keyboard big enough for fat fingers to type letters in turbulence. I can hit an Next/Insert button (forget what it's labeled), type five characters, and enter, and that waypoint is now in the list, the map in the other half of the screen is updated to include that waypoint in the "magenta line" route, and it's a few keystrokes away.

    In Foreflight, I would have to press and hold (in bumps) the long text string in the top right that makes up the entire flight plan, then slide finger back and forth hoping it didn't come off the screen to hit the little tiny one space between the waypoint before, and the waypoint after I want to do the insert, then hope I'm to the right of the space, if not enter a space, then type the waypoint in (keyboard's okay here... no difference really) then check that there's a space after the waypoint, then hit ... I forget what... to update the whole thing.

    It's basically a target shooting game with a slider trying to hit an individual character or two in that long text string to put another waypoint in the middle between two others.

    It can be done, but it's a lot less direct than punching a couple of well-defined buttons that are big and fat.

    It was exactly trying to change a route in-flight that made me realize I needed a mount. I've always just flown with the laptop/iPad in my lap, and set it down in-between the seats when not needed/wanted. Or if bumpy, slid it under the passenger side seatbelt if there's no passenger. Since my wife is the most common right-seater, she'll also happily hold it for me when not in use, if she's not reading her book. ;)

    But the target-shooting in the text string (which needs to be bigger), zooming/scrolling, and the rubber-banding all assume a stable iPad. So I'm going to have to go do the kneeboard or more likely, the RAM mount thing. Probably safer anyway. But my iPad lives in a case that's a "portfolio" style, with elastic to hold the cover open or closed from InCase, and I'm going to have to take it out of that for flying, then put it back in later. No biggie, but you did hit the main reason rubber-banding was annoying in-flight. Hard-mounts highly recommended.

    Totally understood, reference both the "demanding customer/guy who thinks everything is easy/free" note above ;) and then temper it with "Wouldn't want them to do this wrong, or wonky user-interface-wise", and add a little... why not ask... worst they can do is say "no", and finish up with... these are all things I used. Brand X actually has even more checkboxes than these... these were the useful ones.

    Yup. Here's why. Without starting a religious war, I'm a North Up guy. Have always held the paper charts in my lap North Up, do my planning on the kitchen table North Up, yadda yadda yadda.

    North Up. I was good with that for 20 years of aviating. (Dang.. I just realized it's been 20 years this year... 1991-2011. Holy crap.)

    Then I took a Mountain Flying course.

    In the rocks, climbing out of an airport, the very first thing that happened was, "Put that silly computer away and get out your chart."

    Okay, old-timer... I can hang with that... the tech can be a distraction, but eventually I'll figure out how to get the computer and tech back involved in my flying up here, later on.

    Second thing that happened was, "Got a chartline drawn on that map?"

    "Yes. Right here."

    "Okay, put the aircraft on the heading you calculated coming out of this airport and turn that chart around and use it to REALLY LOOK at the terrain.

    See the mountain over there. Find it along your courseline. See the river, and the bend there, make sure it's where you think it should be.

    Your chart should match exactly what you're seeing out the windows up here.

    If it's not, you're likely to fly up the wrong valley, and some of these valleys, even this 182 can't turn around in.

    Now see where your courseline goes there, just barely to the right of that ridge... make sure you go there. The valley to the left is a box canyon, and I've searched it for an aircraft departing this airport.

    Never EVER go somewhere up here your brain hasn't already gone. And make sure that chart is turned to match your heading and the view out the window matches.

    You'll have to turn it around for frequencies and things, but keep it pointed exactly the direction the airplane is, and match your terrain on the map to what you see out the window."

    For the first time ever, I had a chart lying in my lap, doing Track Up. Me. A dyed in the wool North Up guy. And it actually worked, and made sense of some very difficult terrain ahead. Some of which, if I went the wrong way or up the wrong drainage, I could not out-climb.

    Look at the three mountains ahead, note that the one you want on the right side going up the next valley in this climb has a radio facility and RCO depicted on it. Can you spot it in the trees? Yep, there it is... that's the correct mountain on the correct side of the aircraft.

    So I learned something that day... and I've been flying around with my VFR sectionals upside down when headed South, ever since. It clicked. Landmarks are where they should be. No more mental calculations going on to say "the landmark is Southeast of me", if the compass freaks out... the landmark is AHEAD and to the LEFT... right where it should be along this track line I'm following on this chart.

    So ... that's why I brought that one up. Otherwise, I'll be rotating the iPad. Thank goodness they announced today that the next version will put the rotation lock option back on the external switch, where it belongs. ;)

    (Another religious war.)

    (Route of flight was FTG, Rollins Pass (just West of KBJC), 20V, GWS, ASE, down valley departure until possible to turn around and cross over the ridgeline to the north, over the reservoir, Hagermann Pass, KLXV, South down valley to the Salida area, then back out to the plains. 20V-GWS-ASE is tricky part, climbing on a 70F-75F day up there.)

    Fun stuff. Did I forget to type up the Emergency Nearest-Airport TO button/feature? Any good Aviation GPS should have that... that one's a must-have no-brainer.
     
  39. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
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    Display name:
    iMooniac
    Some devil's advocate here, some simple thoughts, all of which are my own, and again I have no clue what FF's plans are nor do I speak for them in any way.

    Would you rather ForeFlight spend time duplicating the efforts of others, or come up with new and unique features in their own app? Are you willing to double-tap a button for the latter? ;)

    Oh, I agree with all that. I was simply pointing out that there *is* a default altitude, it sounded like you hadn't found that yet.

    I think my brain just melted. That doesn't sound user-friendly at all...

    I've gotta say, I'm very happy with my RAM mount, and I use the iPad even more now than I did, because it's right there and I don't have to even pick it up.

    I now have the Apple case for my iPad, and I take it out to put it in the RAM mount. However, RAM is supposedly developing a cradle of some sort that will accommodate the iPad while it's in an OtterBox case (like Mike D has). That'll be a sweet setup.

    You realize you can turn the iPad, right? ;) :D

    A-freakin'-men to that. I felt strongly enough about that one that I'm still running iOS 3.2.2 on the iPad. I'll finally get to upgrade when 4.3 comes out! Woohoo! :goofy:

    Naah, I think everyone liked the hardware orientation lock. After all, it was already easy to mute the iPad by just holding down the Volume Down switch for a second - It'd go click-click-mute.

    Hmmm. You could just hold your finger down on the airplane and you'd get a list of all the nearest airports (including the private ones, which many Garmin units won't do!), but this brings up a philosophical question:

    Is the iPad an EFB, or a GPS?
     
  40. Inverted

    Inverted Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
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    Walnut Creek CA
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    Display name:
    Inverted
    If you are calculating weight and balance in flight, it's probably too late...