ForeFlight vs Garmin Pilot

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Fearless Tower, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Anyone used both and care to comment on how they compare?

    I currently use a Garmin Aera 510 with XM weather and an iPad with Foreflight. I was considering either ditching the XM subscription and getting Stratus for use with FF or ditching FF and getting Garmin Pilot and a GDL 39.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    ForeFlight has the better, more intuitive interface, but Garmin Pilot has been developing new, innovative features at a rapid rate, so you won't go wrong with either. FF has an edge in weather gathering (in my opinion), but it's a minor advantage. Support has been stellar for both. It's a really tough call. I wish both supported more ADS-B options, but that will probably take awhile for some uniform implementation standards to evolve.

    Good luck with whichever you choose. I currently have and use both!
     
  3. CT4ME

    CT4ME Cleared for Takeoff

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    Make sure you are comparing the latest of each, as they've had major updates in the last few days (GP today). Also GP has Android and ipad versions, which have different features.
    FF is more mature and has great tech support. GP is coming on strong. Some like the familiar interface from other Garmin products. Make sure the tablet/ADS-b interface is a good combo, there have been some problems.
     
  4. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    Is there a good Foreflight type app for android tablets. I don't have a tablet yet, but was considering getting one. I've been waiting on a foreflight equivalent for android before I buy one because I don't like Apple products.

    Pardon the hijack.
     
  5. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Garmin Pilot is excellent on Android. I use it on a Nexus 7. There are slight differences in the feature sets on iPad vs. Android but they're working on unifying their feature set across platforms.
     
  6. airdale

    airdale Pattern Altitude

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    Both Garmin and Foreflight will probably resist standards for as long as they can. Proprietary interfaces are a fairly common tactic for market share leaders.

    I have ditched my iPad and gone to a Nexus 7, but if I were still on the iPad I would try very hard to like WingX. They are interfacing to multiple ADS-B boxes and to other devices, so give the user the most options and the price benefits of competition among the box manufacturers. Hilton hangs out on the red board; you can get an idea of his philosophy there.
     
  7. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm playing with Garmin Pilot 5.0 which arrived today with an impressive array of new features, not the least of which are the new vector-based VFR and IFR charts. I could definitely see gravitating to these...sort of the same "look" you'd have on a GTN 750 display. Lots of other little enhancements. Very impressive update.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  8. ja_user

    ja_user Pattern Altitude

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    This must be on the iPad?
     
  9. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes...wish these features were on Android now!
     
  10. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    Excellent! I much prefer android stuff, and I sure didn't want to buy an ipad just for flying. I have thought about the Nexus 7 for my first tablet. Thanks for the info.
     
  11. Challenged

    Challenged Pattern Altitude

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    Vector-based sectionals is one of the main reason I prefer to run Anywhere Map on my Nexus 7. It sure would be nice to have an app on Android that supported vector maps and ADS-B hardware though.
     
  12. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Vector based charting is one of the issues I am having with Garmin Pilot. I much prefer the raster based charts of FF. As a Navy Navigator, I have learned to loathe vector based charts. I have seen way too many errors/inaccuracies in vector charts.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  13. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Garmin Pilot 5.0 on iPad gives you the choice of either. I think it's impressive. Hope it makes it to Android soon!
     
  14. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So you can have view the traditional sectional charts with GP 5.0?

    That is a big plus
     
  15. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes...that's always been there. Your choice of WAC or Sectional plus Terminal charts when zoomed in. They just added the vector VFR and IFR charts with this version. Flip between them as desired.
     
  16. ja_user

    ja_user Pattern Altitude

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    What is a vector based chart?
     
  17. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It means that all the details of the chart are saved in layers....ie all airports are in one layer, all Nav aids / obstacles ...etc are in a different layers and you can turn the different layers on or off. Sounds great, but much more room for error in the different layers (this is exactly why USS GUARDIAN recently ran aground in the Philippines).

    Raster charts are essentially a scanned copy of the paper chart. All detail is in one single layer and the individual details cannot be modified once the chart is made.
     
  18. ja_user

    ja_user Pattern Altitude

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    Oh yes, I remember that from Anywhere Map. I liked it, because I could setup various profiles for night/terrain, etc that were usefull. I can see how that would create errors though.
     
  19. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    They're dynamically created on the fly and give you a lot of flexibility in what is displayed and how cluttered you want it. All your certified moving may avionics are based on vector charts, which is why the can always display things oriented correctly regardless of orientation or direction of flight.

    There's really no basis for them being more prone to errors. I think the raster charts are actually created from a vector database, if I'm not mistaken. And you'll notice some georeferencing errors on the raster maps from time to time, as well as glitches where adjoining maps are stitched together.
     
  20. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The errors come from within each layer. It is easier for a specific object to be out of place in the layer. So overall, the chart may look correct....except for that one item that bites you in the arse. That is what happened with the DNCs (Digital Nautical Charts) for the Philippines.....in one of the layers on the chart in use, the reef was entered 9 miles away from where it actually was.
     
  21. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Doing some more reading on the two.....seems like the big thing that you get with the GDL 39 and GP over FF and Stratus is ADS-B traffic.

    Frustrating thing (for me at least) is that the GDL 39 either comes in a plug-in version (that works with the Garmin hand helds) or the Bluetooth version that works with the iPad. So, you can't use a single GDL 39 to provide the data to both.

    Think I am going to stick with FF for the time being. Now I just need to decide whether I want to keep the wx on the Aera with XM or shell out the $800 for Stratus.

    I think I am leaning toward Stratus for the iPad and start saving for a GTX 330.
     
  22. Jc140

    Jc140 Pre-Flight

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    I'm planning on using the GDL 39 with my Aera 510 and iPad. According to Garmin's website, it'll work.

     
  23. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Not disagreeing there could be errors. Just saying the same errors can likely creep into the data used to generate the printed charts, as well, so I don't see that one is inherently more problematic than another.

    In any case, with GP you have both at your disposal.
     
  24. schelling53

    schelling53 Filing Flight Plan

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    I have a little input on this subject. First I am a big fan of android over apple but I will say I would buy which ever platform would best run whichever app is best. With that being said, I currently fly 9 different airplanes daily, as slow as a cubcrafters cub to a seneca and a twin cessna, and I like both Foreflight and Garmin Pilot. I am now starting to lean more towards Garmin Pilot over Foreflight. Obviously when Garmin Pilot came out the choice was clear everyone was leaning toward the company who had been running the app on tablets for some time and had more experience already. As of yesterday we started receiving TERRAIN on our ipad with Garmin pilot. If you have ever operated a GTN series gps the interface looks pretty much identical. lets keep in mind here who has the HUGE name in avionics. Also Garmin app now has the ability to write on approach charts, so whenever center tells me to report crossing XXXXXX IAP fix well i hit the annotate button and write a little R right on top of the fix. Also with Garmin one can set reminders, for example, report 50 miles northeast KMSP airport. I can hit tools, reminders, and then just like in the vnav function of the GPS I can set remind me, 50 miles, before, KMSP, and also add a message. This function could also be used for a fuel scheduler. I could set a reminder repeated for every 30 min before I take off and Vwallah ever 30 minutes it says, "switch tanks". We also use the Stratus, Stratus II and the GDL39 daily. If you update the firmware on the old stratus it too receives ads-b traffic now and the rumor that the gdl39 cannot bluetooth to multiple devices? well its a rumor. we usually have it bluetoothed to 2 on each flight. Personally we are questioning do we want Garmin or Foreflight? To me the choice is now clear. I think (and this is my opinion) that Garmin, by introducing the terrain feature yesterday, stepped out ahead of Foreflight. Also Foreflight is a standalone company in designing apps and stratus boxes. Garmin is your biggest name in avionics who is already even with, if not ahead of Foreflight, I think that will soon be all there is. The company is trying so hard to sweep all fields I think your service with them will be excellent. Now someone said that when running android they were asking what tablet made the best platform. Well for all you who have a good dose of the Apple Koolaide in you obviously the Ipad and Ipad mini are your only options. I would do mini for yoke mount and full size for everything else. keep in mind you must buy the 3G ipad to be able to use the built in GPS feature. The wifi only ipads have NO GPS CAPABILITY. Not a problem if you plan to use the GDL39 because that does have a gps receiver in it and it works great just have to change settings to "use gdl39 as gps" and good idea even if you do have a 3g ipad as it saves the battery immensely. Now for the androids. Fortunately every android tablet does have a gps so that is easy but some tablets support the program better than others. (I have used this on many) First I would say that the Nexus 7 is similar to the ipad mini and use it for a yoke mount but for everything else I would get the Samsung Galaxy tab 10.1 or the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1. Also keep in mind that if you are to download everything for this app it will use up about 10gb so I would always get one with expandable memory IE. Micro SD slot or at least 32gb built in memory. Now you know how I feel about it and well this is my 2 cents. :wink2:
     
  25. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm still hung up on the fact that you fly NINE different airplanes daily! :cool: :D

    So Garmin Pilot for iPad now has terrain? Kewl. I wonder how long until Garmin's red-headed step children (aka: their Android development team) have that feature ready for us?
     
  26. mirage00

    mirage00 Pattern Altitude

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    Does Garmin have L/R traffic pattern info yet? Asked for this about 18 months ago and last I checked it was still not available. Right or Left traffic thats all I'm asking for.
     
  27. OtisAir

    OtisAir Line Up and Wait

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    I just purchased (and received) the Stratus II from Sporty's and Foreflight so I'm looking real forward to putting it through its paces. I did a quick flight this past weekend but left my iPad in my motorcycle saddle bags so only had my iPhone to diddle with. I looks like it'll be a winner for me. Weather, ADS-B, Approaches, and a bunch of other good stuff!
     
  28. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Whew....think paragraph breaks!!

    GP on iPad is a very compelling competitor to ForeFlight. But on Android it still lags quite a bit. They're working on it, but neither ForeFlight or the GP iPad teams are sitting on their hands, so it's a tough battle.

    Competition is good.
     
  29. FlightofTwo

    FlightofTwo Pre-Flight

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    I've used an iPad with ForeFlight for a couple years, and just switched over to using Garmin Pilot on it. My husband has a Google Nexus 7 and uses Garmin Pilot on it. I have the GDL-39, and really like that. The terrain is neat, the traffic is great, the weather is good, and it has a "looping" function, something somebody was bemoaning ADS-B not having somewhere I read recently. I haven't done it yet, but it IS supposed to connect to the iPad and to the hand helds/certain panel mounts as well.

    Garmin Pilot does advancements for the iPad faster than they do the Nexus. When I first started using GP, I missed my ForeFlight, badly, but they have just rocketed through on advancements with every update, and at this point, I'm quite happy with them.

    The GDL-39 works well, but it does not have the longest battery life. I keep it plugged into the airplane on long trip days.

    Honestly, I don't think you'll go wrong either way.
     
  30. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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    I hate Anywhere Map with the passion of a thousand suns for charging me $1700 for a device that claims to pick up XM weather, but does not. And telling me it's all my fault and to do something up a rope.

    I heard a rumor that they are out of business, I hope so.
     
  31. MSPAviator

    MSPAviator Cleared for Takeoff

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    I'm loving Avare for Android, it just keeps getting better and better. And it's free. Free charts, free IAPs, free geo-referenced taxi diagrams, free AFD. The latest version has a WX tab which pulls data from Aviationweather.gov.
     
  32. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Uhhh... ForeFlight has had terrain for quite some time now.
     
  33. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well, a few months....but I guess that's "some time"! Competition is good.
     
  34. schelling53

    schelling53 Filing Flight Plan

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    from what i have seen the Android updates come about a month after the apple ones but remember this is due to supply and demand. More people use Android the faster our updates come out.
     
  35. schelling53

    schelling53 Filing Flight Plan

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    Foreflight has obstacles but if you look at GP their terrain function now looks just like the Garmin Avionics in other words when on the ground your map is red, when above ground to 1000 feet agl it is yellow and when above that it is normal. I do not believe foreflight has this capability yet or if it does I cannot find it.
     
  36. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No, ForeFlight has full terrain as well as the obstacle layer. Go to the map layers menu and turn on "Hazard Advisor."

    [​IMG]

    Note: This is a feature that requires the Pro subscription. That (along with it being called "Hazard Advisor" instead of just "Terrain" to avoid confusion with the terrain basemap) may be another reason why you don't see it...
     
  37. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him read the free manual. ;)
     
  38. Piloto

    Piloto Line Up and Wait

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    But the only GPS navigation systems that are FAA approved use vector based charting. I myself prefer vector based charts because you can declutter them to enhance what you actually need. All the airliners Navigation Displays are vector charts, with no VFR charts. After all why would you need a VFR chart when you are using GPS for navigation.

    José
     
  39. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I thought only permanently installed panel mounted GPS units were "FAA approved"? Has this changed?

    Personally, I use a VFR chart with my GPS for many reasons. One is the number printed in each grid telling me the height MSL of the highest obstacle in that grid. I fly higher that that and helps to keep me out of trouble. The VFR chart also shows towns, water, some roads, rail roads, very useful for keeping positional awareness if the GPS should stop working. It's also nice to know what I'm looking at as well. One reason I like ForeFlight is the VFR charts. I'm not flying an airliner, so VFR charts work for me.

    Vector charts work for you and that's fine, I won't say it reflects on your flying or skills, it's just your preference.
     
  40. jesse

    jesse Administrator Management Council Member

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    I tried really hard to read what you just wrote and simply couldn't get through it. I'd suggest you learn to use paragraphs if you're going to put that much work into writing something...