Foreflight TOC and TOD

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180
I like the new version of FF, but it's still missing Top of Climb and Top of Decent points that I would calculate when I was doing paper planning as a student pilot on XC flights. Well, now that I's a real pile-ut I dun gots lazy and dooos ever' thing 'lectronical.

As I thought on the problem, I realized that FF now supports distance and bearing from waypoints (I'll have to watch the video again to get the syntax - unless someone posts it in this thread - hint, hint) and I can use that to plot a point and make that TOC or TOD. I should be able to name said derived waypoint (but there's a catch).

If a waypoint is named, it gets stored as a custom waypoint and that list would get cluttered fast. I would have to remember to keep it clean, a real pester when I'm just daydreaming up a new XC flight I'm thinking of. But it is a workaround solution.

What I think I'd like to do is segment a flight in different plans with different altitudes and corresponding wind data as FF now supports that too, speeds, fuel burn, etc, then concatenate them to make the complete plan.

Why? I need to know if I can remain within my 1-hr fuel min for a long XC I'm anticipating in August and do it in a single-hop. Right now single hop is for academic purposes; human factors prohibit me from doing max endurance flights. Electronic planning and a SWAG puts it about 36-45 mins fuel at destination. Would I really stop halfway when I can make day (possibly night) VFR fuel mins? Darn Skippy I would! But I don't want to have to stop. Truth is, I don't have the instrumentation to cut fuel down to 1hr confidently, nor have I yet collected enough data to have ascertained my REAL fuel burn - I only have the book numbers:(.
 
One of my apps (DTC DUATS I Think) automatically picks the best altitude based on VFR/IFR, the winds aloft and flight direction including end of climb and start descent IIRC. I run a quick direct flight on that to get the altitude, etc. and then do the detailed planning on FF.

Another step I know but I am a semi-electronic freak so it is semi-fun doing it that way.

Cheers
 
how hard is this to figure out?

500fpm ROD at constant TAS more or less gets you time = alt AGL/ 500 -

example: ground level 1000MSL - your alt 6500 ft. = 5500' to lose. Assume 1000 AGL for pattern altitude and you need to descend 3500 feet - divided by 500 = 7 min out more or less - its usually about 10% less since you slow down as you descend generally.

If you are using Foreflight then you know when you are 7min out from your destination . . . .

Climbs are you get there when you get there - no computer can tell you that - depends on winds, hp, climb rate, weight, air density, etc etc etc.
 
comanchepilot said:
how hard is this to figure out?

500fpm ROD at constant TAS more or less gets you time = alt AGL/ 500 -

example: ground level 1000MSL - your alt 6500 ft. = 5500' to lose. Assume 1000 AGL for pattern altitude and you need to descend 3500 feet - divided by 500 = 7 min out more or less - its usually about 10% less since you slow down as you descend generally.

If you are using Foreflight then you know when you are 7min out from your destination . . . .

Climbs are you get there when you get there - no computer can tell you that - depends on winds, hp, climb rate, weight, air density, etc etc etc.
Click to expand...

Climbs use more fuel. Decents use less than cruise. And since I climb at max (after getting from under the Bravo) and decent at 200-300 fpm, how much fuel will I use? how long will it take? what altitude is most efficient? how many different altitude profiles should I use?

Many variables....
 
Jaybird180 said:
Climbs use more fuel. Decents use less than cruise. And since I climb at max (after getting from under the Bravo) and decent at 200-300 fpm, how much fuel will I use? how long will it take? what altitude is most efficient? how many different altitude profiles should I use?

Many variables....
Click to expand...

if you schedule your climbs and descents at cruise you'll average out your burn pretty well . . .

I trust you don't count your fuel down to the ounce and rely on that for flight planning . . . . or for fuel exhaustion point.

a 300fpm descent is pretty shallow . .. but if thats what you use - then divide altitude by 4 and thats the number of minutes - divide that by 60, multiply times descent fuel flow and there is your fuel used.

For the climb, ignore the time spent leveled off getting oout of the bravo and use your total time to alt as the time/60 times climb fuel flow -

Not all that many variables. I dunno how you flight plan but I'm looking for 60 min of fuel or more at cruise fuel flow at destination or alternate - depending on if 'm VFR or IFR. For me thats 16 gallons. . again more or less.
 
I'd just use fltplan.com for those calculations that need more accuracy. Their aircraft performance and fuel burn database is pretty good.

As for the syntax, it's in the "help" prompt for the search field. VOR/Radial/Distance. e.g. LAX/320/15

Though you can also use VORraddis, which is often the general format for other sites/services. LAX320015.
 
Jaybird180 said:
See my last paragraph in the OP about fuel.
Click to expand...

from where to where in what?

Yeah - I have a spreadsheet that does W&B and range/alt/headwind/reserves for my 260C - the thing about long distance flights in a piston single is that you start out and go as far as you can safely taking into account your experience with the airplane, similar flights in the same season, and then, if you are not gonna make it safely - you land and get gas.

I was over NYC and there was a guy in a Bonanza get what he knew was going to be a long vector [and I've had to fly it before myself] and he said that would put him into his fuel reserves and that he was declaring minimum fuel.

NY asked him where he was going - and he said Lebanon, NH and NY simply asked him where he wanted to land for fuel . . . we're not like the airliners!
 
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Jaybird180 said:
Climbs use more fuel. Decents use less than cruise. And since I climb at max (after getting from under the Bravo) and decent at 200-300 fpm, how much fuel will I use? how long will it take? what altitude is most efficient? how many different altitude profiles should I use?

Many variables....
Click to expand...
For most piston powered airplanes you can expect that the extra fuel required beyond a departure to destination at cruising altitude will amount something close to 2% of the cruising fuel consumption per hour for every thousand feet of climb. This number does vary among airplanes somewhat and is also affected slightly by the duration of the cruise segment. This accounts for the higher fuel flow and lower groundspeed during climbout as well as the increased mpg during descent.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Climbs use more fuel. Decents use less than cruise.
Click to expand...

Not my descents. If it ain't bumpy, I ain't slowing down until about 10 miles out. Point the nose down and leave it at cruise power. Twist in some mixture.

Why waste good gravity? ;)

The evil ChartCase Pro had climb and descent profiles for fuel and speed for the aircraft, as well as plan views of cloud heights along the route via METAR data along it, and special use airspace many many years ago.

Neither Foreflight nor WingX has bothered to add those features yet, AFAIK.

I won't ever use ChartCase ever again, but their competitors haven't reached feature-parity with them yet.
 
Fly 2.5 or 3 hours put it on the ground, get fuel and go pee. Why only 200-300 fpm going down? Calculate winds aloft scenarios all you want but don't be surprised when they are different then you calculated. Have fun flying, don't turn into a full time science project.
 
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