Foreflight Logbook vs. MyFlightbook

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Somedudeintn, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. Somedudeintn

    Somedudeintn Cleared for Takeoff

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    I just upgraded my foreflight and now have access to the logbook. I've been using MyFlightbook and love it. I'm not planning on switching, but was curious if anyone had experience with the FF logbook. Are there any compelling reasons to switch?
     
  2. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    I haven't looked the the FF one; kept my old subscription and didn't add it when I renewed last week. So take this FWIW:

    My WAG is that the primary target market for FF's logbook is folks who have not used feature eLog before . Perhaps they're using paper. Or maybe a spreadsheet backup but they want the advantages of a dedicated database feature set. Maybe snag a few who are not happy with their current system or just love FF so much they want to pay for everything it provides. (That's not a knock - I have been a fan of FF for the 4-5 years I've been using it)

    I've been looking at third party eLog offerings about as long as such things have existed and have been using one since DOS. IMO, there are not going to be very much in the way of functional differences that would "compel" users who like what they re using to switch. But, of course, UI preference is king of the hill in this area.
     
  3. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    I'll mirror that thought.

    I upgraded FF when their eLog feature first became available (and @JeffDG was having a conniption on the pricing model). IMO, I prefer MFB. While the "auto logging" is handy, there are various things about MFB that I like better, including the price tag. Add to the fact that @EricBe, the Developer of MFB, is a semi-regular here.

    I've looked at a few other eLog offerings, such as SafeLog, ZuluLog, and LogTenPro, but keep coming back the MFB.
     
  4. mjburian

    mjburian Cleared for Takeoff

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    I paid for the logbook in my recent renewal and have nearly 20 flights still in "Draft" state. I guess it auto-sensed that I was flying, which is nice. But, it also seems to have a lower total time than my watch (which I trust). So, I'd have to modify those entries anyway... causing the auto-fill to not be of much value to me.

    Admittedly, I haven't spent much time with it. But I've already made a mental note to not bother paying for it at the next renewal, based simply on the fact that MyFlightbook does *almost* everything I'd like it to, and at a price I can handle for the long-term. (Though I have donated essentially the same amount to MFB in the past and expect to again in the future, it's just that it's not REQUIRED.) Plus, as @AggieMike88 mentioned, the fact that @EricBe is "one of us" makes it feel like I'm supporting someone I know.
     
  5. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    MFB has an autologging feature. I don't use it so I don't know exactly how it works, but it has one.
     
  6. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I believe it uses the GPS to sense ground speed above 40 knots.

    That might be a problem for the drive to the airport....

    I use the app/website, but not the autologger. I prefer to use the Hobbs meter, as that's what I pay for anyway.

    No way I'd trust Foreflight to get that right, at least not in their first draft. Their auto-track-log logged my entire drive home from Livermore the one time I had it enabled, and told me that my car drove at 100 AGL all the way there.
     
  7. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    You're correct.

    To make it work, you just need to have the app active, and have told it you're starting the engine (tap the Engine Start line). Then it will detect when you take off, grab that time, and grab when you land (decelerate). And then when you shut down, you tap Engine Stop. From the information it grabbed/logged, it will auto-fill fields such as Total Time, XC, and others. Then you can manually crossfill as needed.

    And MAKG points out a flaw in FF. I too have had it auto log the drive home.
     
  8. Somedudeintn

    Somedudeintn Cleared for Takeoff

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    Well that's it, I'm switching! I'll be building time a lot faster if I get to log the drive to and from the airport!!
     
  9. FlightofTwo

    FlightofTwo Pre-Flight

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    Garmin Pilot also has an "auto logbook", but I don't use it, I stick with MyFlightBook, because it too is short on time vs the hobbs, which I could live with because I'm not time building, but the part I can't live with is that it also automatically auto-fills in the last plane you used. So if you only ever fly one airplane, you're good to go. But I fly a lot of different airplanes, usually on the same day, and I'd have to go in and edit every single entry for airplane, and since I was doing that anyway, for proper hobbs too. Too much hassle. I just log it in MFB and am done with it...
     
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  10. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    This is what @EricBe posted in reply to me on MFB's FB page:

    "I used to work as a senior guy at two tech/web firms that you've heard of, but I was a manager (think pointy-hair, not bent tie), so I didn't get to write a whole lot of code. I left those companies 10 years ago (yikes!) and needed a coding project and needed an electronic logbook, so MyFlightbook was born. I spend my days on a variety of pursuits (including angel investing in the cleantech sector), but I love having a technical project that I'm passionate about, and which is mine. When I was at the aforementioned companies, I used to say that each morning I *got* to go to work, not *had* to; that's how it is with MyFlightbook. I think about how to do things in the shower, and then go do it. It's totally a passion project, and I am blessed to have the time and resources to pursue it as such."

    Anyone who has that mentality towards producing a free product for the rest of us to enjoy (donate!!) is okay in my book. Especially when FF rips off some of his logbook design without credit or throwing him a bone.
     
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  11. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Explain, please. I haven't seen the Foreflight logbook. What did they rip off?

    Edit: I went to YouTube and watched FF's video of the logbook. Same question. What do you think they ripped off from MFB? :confused:
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2016
  12. EricBe

    EricBe Pre-takeoff checklist

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    In the mobile apps there are two settings: one to auto-detect takeoff/landing, and one to record your flight path. For the period when you have a defined Engine Start time until you have an Engine End time defined, these watch the GPS. The first uses your speed to determine when you takeoff and when you land, and updates: (a) start of flight time, (b) end of flight time (as determined by the last landing), (c) # of landings, (d) type of landings (full-stop vs. touch-and-go, day vs. night), and (c) route of flight (as determined at each takeoff/landing). The 2nd is simply a logging feature: it records your time-stamped position reports (along with notes to show where a takeoff/landing was detected) so that you can look at it later.
     
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  13. EricBe

    EricBe Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I never said they "ripped me off"; as far as I can tell, they are engaging in honest competition, and power to them for that. I do think they took inspiration from my design philosophy (which is not only OK, but it's actually even validating, since I had been alone on much of this until they came along) and implemented some features that for a long time nobody else seemed to do. Best examples here are that you don't enter Single engine time/multi-engine time/high performance/tailwheel etc., since this is determined by the aircraft (most other logbook software that I've seen makes enter this explicitly for each flight, which is pointless at best and error prone at worst; e.g., what does it mean if you enter your Boeing 737 time as single-engine?), and the ability to attach images to flights.

    That said, I'm obviously biased and think they have a ways to go to catch up to me. :) I use Foreflight in the cockpit myself, so I know that they write good software that continually improves (though I'd like to to crash a bit less!), so I have to assume that I need to keep up my game as well.
     
  14. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    @EricBe .... any teasers you're willing to share on future features?
     
  15. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    I was pretty sure you didn't, Eric. I was asking someone who did.
    I agree it is pointless. I asked @ircphoenix about why he thought it was a ripoff precisely because I didn't see anything in either implementation that appeared to me to be particularly unique.

    Including using a look-up table for airplane characteristics. I think doing that is obvious. At least it was to me when I did that in my personal eLog more than 20 years ago (I think when I still had it in DOS), although I chose make/model rather than N-Number since I flew a lot of different airplanes, sometimes an N-Number only once. (I still use it as a backup to MFB; old habits die hard ;)).

    Me too. On both points :)
     
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  16. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I have used myflightbook for 3 years or so. Happy with it. I have FF but no plans to use their logbook.
     
  17. EricBe

    EricBe Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Sure, although I'd more like to hear feature suggestions. Next one I'm toying with is adding backup to OneDrive and GoogleDrive. What do you want to see?
     
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  18. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    an Apple Watch complication.

    I know you have the watch app that allows start and stop of the MFB timers, but I forget to go into the app cloud to find your icon, tap it, and indicate "engine start" or "engine stop". So doing that from a complication that I always have on the face would be a nice thing for me. If the app is running, have the complication show the flight time.

    Alternatively, make the complication just launch the app (like Carrot weather does).

    And add to the Watch app an "IF/Then" of
    "If user_settable_time elapses after final landing and Stop_Timer not pressed, vibrate the haptic to remind the watch wearer to press Stop_Timer"
    But really can't think of much other functional items to add to the core product for the web or mobile.
     
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  19. EricBe

    EricBe Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Actually, other things I want to do are less about features: I'd like to give it a modern user interface (it's pretty vintage 1990's UI right now), and I'd love to open-source the code and get other trusted admins on it so that it can have a long term home...
     
  20. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    If you wanted an existing product to draw inspiration from, look at Safelog's PC version. Especially the grid and left side tabs

    [​IMG]

    iPad Version

    [​IMG]
     
  21. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    And @EricBe, since you're interested in ideas and input on improving MFB, allow me to suggest you create a new thread asking for such input. Not only will it provide a "container" for the discussion, but allow you to establish what it is you're able to do and not do (or would put in the "someday in the future" list)
     
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  22. mjburian

    mjburian Cleared for Takeoff

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    My offer to assist in any development work you might need still stands...
     
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  23. EricBe

    EricBe Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Is that an appropriate thing to do on PilotsOfAmerica?
     
  24. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  25. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    I don;t mind the interface, but "prettier" attracts. The only UI thing I always thought was a bit funky was having the Total Time for a flight being the last item, and with cross-fill capability. Yeah, I know it's the last column in our paper logs but it seem to make more sense to enter that time first and be able to auto-enter the other appropriate columns.

    (And yes, I realize ForeFlight did that in their logbook But don't worry about being accused of a rip off, I did that in about 1999 in mine :D :D)
     
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  26. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    I agree that entering in or confirming TT first, then provide means of "click to crossfill", makes sense for the data entry form.
     
  27. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    We discuss possible features for ForeFlight all the time. As a user of MFB, @EricBe, and since you're an active participant here and not just trying to 'hawk your wares', I have no issue with you having a conversation on PoA with MFB users about what features they'd like to see next. Obviously, any post announcing those features being released should go in the Classifieds section. ;-)
     
  28. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    One more feature request @EricBe: A user-selectable option to record time in TENTHS of an hour, not hundredths.
     
  29. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    That's already there.... but not obvious in the mobile version.... I had asked about this previously and was told where to make the setting.

    I'll dig around for a screen shot...
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
  30. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    @TangoWhiskey

    The setting you ask for exists in the mobile version, but not the web version. Screen shot is from my iPhone. This is found under the Profile menu, then Settings
     

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  31. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    Options tab. Under the "times" header. Under the auto-fill options there's a checkbox for "use nearest tenth of an hour."

    (Android)
     
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  32. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Cool, thanks. I have "use HH:MM" enabled for entering flight times; you don't; how does your view differ with that disabled? What do you see?
     
  33. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Back to the MyFlightBook vs ForeFlight Logbook question. One feature I find lacking in the latter is the ability to "view my logbook AS a logbook". There is zero option to view your logbook in a standard "logbook" style view (rows and columns, flights listed one after another). MFB has that.
     
  34. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    @TangoWhiskey Some of this is done under the aircraft profile page, but more date oriented, such as VOT check and annual inspect.

    Other categories make sense. I likey.

    BTW; see the thread I started as a container for MFB discussion including enhancements...... If possible, can you copy your posts here to that one too?
     
  35. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Never really did the other way, so I don't know.
     
  36. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I've moved my posts over there. Except for the ones that didn't end up being new features but were already there (thanks to you and ircphoenix for pointing them out).
     
  37. EricBe

    EricBe Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Already have that on the mobile apps. On the website, you're generally doing the typing so I don't see as much value in the option. :)
     
  38. EricBe

    EricBe Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Fascinating. Every paper logbook I've ever had put the Total Time as the last field, so it never occurred to me to do that first. I'll ask about this on the other thread.
     
  39. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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    My friend Ken has developed a pretty decent new entry into the cloud based logging market. It's worth a look, especially if you are a CFI, because the developers are adding a lot of CFI specific features to it. It's free to CFIs:

    https://pilotpartner.net/

    Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in this product whatsoever.
     
  40. EricBe

    EricBe Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I just added Google Drive support tonight (in addition to OneDrive support which I added last week).
     
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