For the engine experts-Oil Level

Just so every body knows, I do realize there are a great many engines that will discharge oil to a point.

My question was "Is that a discrepancy that should be corrected?" Where do you draw the line as to how much is too much?

As has been pointed out, the factory has given us a usage limit. Has any one ever checked their engine usage to see if it exceeds the factory numbers?

If that was your question, then why didn't you just ask it in the first place? :dunno:
 
Right, so if I start with 6 quarts, and 6 hours later I bring it back to the 6 quart mark with just over half a quart of oil, does my engine pass the test? Yes or No, "One ping only please".

That just means that ya didn't wait for the 1/2 quart which is in the engine to drain into the sump before pulling the dipstick....:D
 
Where are you getting a minimum oil level of 6 qts in a o-320? I think an o-320 min oil level is just 2 qts.
That's the minimum level to find after operation before a tear-down inspection is required. The O-320 manual says don't fly it with less than 4 quarts before start.
 
If that was your question, then why didn't you just ask it in the first place? :dunno:

'cause it takes him a while to find his question...there are so many questions in the world...
 
Just so every body knows, I do realize there are a great many engines that will discharge oil to a point.

My question was "Is that a discrepancy that should be corrected?" Where do you draw the line as to how much is too much?

As has been pointed out, the factory has given us a usage limit. Has any one ever checked their engine usage to see if it exceeds the factory numbers?


If so, that's a discrepancy that probably upwards of 95% of aircraft have.

Only plane I've seen that I full up and it just stays there is my Stinson.

The 185 gets 10qts on a oil change, I could fill her all the way up, but I'd end up back at 10 and have to clean the plane more, put 10 in and it just stays there till I change the oil.
 
Just so every body knows, I do realize there are a great many engines that will discharge oil to a point.

My question was "Is that a discrepancy that should be corrected?" Where do you draw the line as to how much is too much?

As has been pointed out, the factory has given us a usage limit. Has any one ever checked their engine usage to see if it exceeds the factory numbers?

I draw the line when I check the gas, and fill it with oil at every "fuel stop", instead of the other way 'round. Like our AA1, it took to burning more oil than gas. Time for at least a top, but bein's how there was about 2100 on the engine, might as well just do a complete OH.
 
That's the minimum level to find after operation before a tear-down inspection is required. The O-320 manual says don't fly it with less than 4 quarts before start.

when does that engine become unairworthy?
 
You are in Garland County! Guaranteed. Oaklawn Raceway maybe?

Nah, going up I-44 thru St. Clair, Mo

water-towers-st-clair-missouri.jpg
 
If so, that's a discrepancy that probably upwards of 95% of aircraft have.

Only plane I've seen that I full up and it just stays there is my Stinson.

The 185 gets 10qts on a oil change, I could fill her all the way up, but I'd end up back at 10 and have to clean the plane more, put 10 in and it just stays there till I change the oil.

And you really don't want your seaplane dribbling oil in the water.:no:
 
When it is found to contain a lower minimum oil content then the manufacturers specs....:rolleyes:

I'll play the devil's advocate one more time and ask, Where does any manufacturer place a statement that says what the maximum oil usage is in service?

We have requirement of maximum oil usage during the testing phase of the overhaul procedures but in service ??
 
I'll play the devil's advocate one more time and ask, Where does any manufacturer place a statement that says what the maximum oil usage is in service?

We have requirement of maximum oil usage during the testing phase of the overhaul procedures but in service ??

That's because there is none, they actually expect you to figure out when it's starting to use too much. Holy crap, what a concept, actually expecting people to think for themselves and use their own judgement., unimaginable today, but common just 60 years ago when these manuals were written. :rolleyes2:
 
That's because there is none, they actually expect you to figure out when it's starting to use too much. Holy crap, what a concept, actually expecting people to think for themselves and use their own judgement., unimaginable today, but common just 60 years ago when these manuals were written. :rolleyes2:

Wouldn't ya know, you've read every manual ever written. and what the manufacturers think.

:yikes:
 
Wouldn't ya know, you've read every manual ever written. and what the manufacturers think.

:yikes:

If things aren't specified, you're expected to use your best judgement, same goes for the FARS. You sound like Ron for mechanics. Why don't you ask Chief Counsel for an interpretation?:rolleyes2:
 
I'll play the devil's advocate one more time and ask, Where does any manufacturer place a statement that says what the maximum oil usage is in service?

We have requirement of maximum oil usage during the testing phase of the overhaul procedures but in service ??


My answer was clearly for oil level / quantity... NOT consumption...

Nice try spinning your question....:mad2::mad2:...:rolleyes:
 
If things aren't specified, you're expected to use your best judgement, same goes for the FARS. You sound like Ron for mechanics. Why don't you ask Chief Counsel for an interpretation?:rolleyes2:

I have, their answer was it is up to the manufacturer to state what is the requirement for their product.

Which boils down to the manufacturer's S/Bs
 
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My answer was clearly for oil level / quantity... NOT consumption...

Nice try spinning your question....:mad2::mad2:...:rolleyes:

Well, fly me your aircraft for annual with less than minimum oil in it and see how I sign off the annual.

I certify this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with an annual inspection in accordance with and FAR 43-D and the Aircraft's & engine manufacturer's maintenance manual, and was found to be unairworthy due to the engines excessive oil consumption, and a list of discrepancies has been given to the owner/operator.

Lets see if you can find any certified person who will return that to service with out overhauling it.
 
Well, fly me your aircraft for annual with less than minimum oil in it and see how I sign off the annual.

I certify this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with an annual inspection in accordance with and FAR 43-D and the Aircraft's & engine manufacturer's maintenance manual, and was found to be unairworthy due to the engines excessive oil consumption, and a list of discrepancies has been given to the owner/operator.

Lets see if you can find any certified person who will return that to service with out overhauling it.

My Aircraft is an EXPERIMENTAL..... I will NEVER have to deal with A&P /IA mechanics like you...... And you are the poster child for why...;):D
 
For the engine experts. I have a 0-320. When I add oil, the oil level quickly seems to drop from the original 7 qt. level to stabilize at 6 qts. I am guessing that the qt. I added blows out the vent tube. 6 qts. is the minimum operating level. Is there any way that I can raise the oil level to a higher amount? I recall the planes I trained in usually settled in somewhere around 7 qts.

You need to understand that most 320s will spit out oil in excess of 6 qts. That doesn't make your engine less good than one that'll maintain 7 qts. The only factor that the pilot can change that may affect how quickly oil is consumed if filled above 6 on the dipstick is to try a different oil. Semi synthetics will blow out faster than mineral oils in my engine experience. If you use Aeroshell 15-50 you'll probably see a reduced consumption rate at 7 on the dipstick if you used Phillips 20-50 or Aeroshell 100. Better oil isn't the point, just different behavior with respect to blowing out when the sump is full.

Here's an excerpt from the Lycoming Flyer regarding oil. It's good reading for any Lycoming operator/owner.

The Pilot's Operating Handbook for the Cessna models 152, and 172N Skyhawk have the following information concerning the engine oil:

"Capacity of Engine Sump - 6 quarts. Do not operate on less than 4 quarts. To minimize loss of oil through breather, fill to 5 quart level for normal flights of less than 3 hours. For extended flight, fill to 6 quarts. These quantities refer to oil dipstick level readings. During oil and oil filter changes, one additional quart is required when the filter is changed."

The Pilot's Operating Handbook for the Piper PA-44-180 Seminole states as follows concerning oil requirements:

"The oil capacity of the Lycoming engines is 6 quarts per engine with a minimum safe quantity of 2 quarts per engine. It is necessary that oil be maintained at full (6 quarts) for maximum endurance flights."

The phrase_"a minimum safe quantity of 2 quarts per engine"_should be explained. If the operator checked oil after a flight and found less than 2 quarts in the engine, it is quite probable that engine damage has resulted. No flight should be started with only 2 quarts of oil in the sump.

Pilots and mechanics should not confuse the models just discussed with other Lycoming four cylinder, wet sump engines that hold a maximum of 8 quarts of oil. There is no change in our recommendations when checking oil for the latter. During normal routine flying, oil levels are best maintained at the 6 to 7 quart level.

Source: http://www.7ts0.com/manuals/lycoming/Lycoming_SB_SL/flyer/Lycoming Flyer Key ReprintsMAINTENANCE.htm
 
My Aircraft is an EXPERIMENTAL..... I will NEVER have to deal with A&P /IA mechanics like you...... And you are the poster child for why...;):D

And I'm very content to never excepting the liability for a home built.
 
For one thing, if you want to know what your oil consumption is (not spillage) then you aren't going to fill it up, fly it for an hour and check the dipstick. You'd maybe fill it up, fly for a normal flight range which with standard tanks and keeping the required reserve is usually somewhere around 4 hours, then check the dipstick and divide by four. You'd still have some spillage in your calculation though.

An aircraft owner however knows what the sweet spot is on the dipstick after spillage, keeps his level at that point and consequently knows exactly what the true consumption of his engine is calculated over hundreds of operational hours.
 
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