For Sale: Gorgeous Cessna 205

Discussion in 'The Classifieds' started by dmccormack, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc
    For Sale:

    1963 Cessna 205 (fixed gear 210), Six passenger, IO-470-d (260 HP).

    TTAF: 3020
    SMOH: 380

    Actively flown 100 hours/year SMOH.

    Equipment includes: Garmin 430 WAAS, New Garmin Intercom, Garmin Transponder, S-TEC 50 Autopilot (Wing leveler, Heading track, Nav track, Altitude hold), new tach, new HSI, new Attitude Indicator, EGT/CHT gauge, all other instruments refurbished.

    This airplane is an excellent short field bird, stable and a great IFR platform. Flaps to 40 degrees let this airplane land at 60 MPH and be stopped in less than 1200'

    80 gallon fuel capacity, simple fuel management.

    The airplane was repainted with a modern paint scheme and has been meticulously maintained. New windscreen, upholstery, carpet -- the works.

    Slow down to 110 MPH and burn 10 GPH. Push it to 130 and burn 12-15 GPH (depending on load). Docile, well-mannered, honest airplane.

    Includes a high performance checkout and familiarization flight instruction.

    Airplane is located in Connellsville, PA (KVVS).

    $110k (PM me here)

    Pictures and more info will be posted here
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  2. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,017

    Display name:
    Wayne
    Always wondered what somebody was thinking when they put this at the end of an ad. Especially in bold font. Or if they really think the admonition will change anything.

     
  3. gprellwitz

    gprellwitz Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,882
    Location:
    Romeoville, IL

    Display name:
    Grant Prellwitz
    Dan, I'm really surprised that you can only get 113kts/130mph out of her. Even 130kts seems like it would be on the slow side.
     
  4. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    15,494
    Location:
    Dallas

    Display name:
    Spike Cutler
    C'mon, chucklehead... he means, "You'd better not smile when you make that offer!"
     
  5. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,017

    Display name:
    Wayne
    Then you probably wouldn't be surprised when my initial reaction starts with WTF.

     
  6. tonycondon

    tonycondon Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Messages:
    15,263
    Location:
    Wichita, KS

    Display name:
    Tony
    i can offer $4500. Seriously.
     
  7. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    19,070
    Location:
    UQACY, WI

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    Dan,

    Is that a typo? If you have an S-TEC 40, you don't have altitude hold. If you do have altitude hold (and there'll be an ALT button immediately above the dial), it's an S-TEC 50.
     
  8. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL

    Display name:
    iHenning
    Well, I don't see any times listed in either place, and I'm not seeing anything to make me think that anyone would pay more than $50k for this plane. When I read your ad, this is what I read:

    "High time run out old plane that was totaled when it was new and rebuilt so out of rig it won't make close to speed (135-140kts is 75% cruise on every 205 I've ever flown and that's 4 different ones) and that someone is running harder than was ever intended (IO 470 putting out 300hp?!? WTF is up there?). I figure out how to get just what I need as cheap as possible (Is it a 430W or a 420W as you indicate on the other site? Why cobble together an STEC 40 system into an STEC 50?). I'm also less than honest (didn't list any times except to extrapolate at least 4700 hrs) and am going to try to buffalo everyone into thinking this is the superior unit on the market by pricing it 50%-100% higher than any comp, even better equipped ones and leaving normal valuation information out of the ad. If you are dumb enough to want to buy my machine, you better come up with my price and don't waste my time if you're not willing to acquiesce to me.

    There may or may not be any level of truth to this, but this is how your ad reads to me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  9. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc
    You took the time to write snark -- how, then should the ad read?
     
  10. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc
    You sure you've flown a 205? I have the POH, and have plenty of time in the airplane -- the airplane makes book values in every category. You must think a 206 is a 205 -- it's not.

    Further, if you knew much about the 205, you'd know the IO-470-d was de-rated to 260 HP (Why? I don't know -- ask Cessna).
     
  11. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc
    Yep, it was -- good catch.

    I don't own the airplane -- helping a friend sell it. I'm heading out to the airport later today to take pics and grab logbooks, etc.
     
  12. David

    David Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    199

    Display name:
    Dave
    Dan,
    The IO470D is rated at 260HP by continental along with several other variants of the 470. I think it was the maximum published HP for any the stock 470's. Here's a link to a chart at TCM's website.
    http://www.tcmlink.com/producthighlights/ENGTBL.PDF
    Dave
     
  13. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc

    Good info -- thanks. RPM is limited to 2625 on the IO-470-d as well.
     
  14. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc
    Made edits (despite snarkiness -- :raspberry: )

    better?
     
  15. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL

    Display name:
    iHenning
    Wasn't trying to be snark, just letting you know the impression the add left the way it was worded, I wasn't commenting on the specific plane.

    Successful ads are upfront with all the vital information including the warts. If a plane has a damage history it should be open in the ad. If it is found in later inspection, it always puts people on guard as well as giving an immediate bust point on price as the implication is that the advertised price did not contain a damage history therefor it wasn't part of the advertised "deal". If a person shows up and finds the plane exactly as advertised then the price is what it is. The key to selling anything is to come across as scrupulously honest. People want to feel they trust the person selling so they feel confident that they are not buying something with "banana peels in the differential".

    Regardless all that, the price is just set too high for the market. As you said, it's a 205 not a 206.

    I am not familiar with any 470 series Continental that was rated over 260hp. I have around 150 hrs in 205s (not 206s) and 205As(taller rudder) and they cruised at 135-140kts, don't know how that compares to book numbers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  16. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc

    The 205 Series used a MPH ASI -- perhaps you're confusing with knots?

    This aircraft wasn't wrecked -- it simply sat outside and was in a bad way after the previous x 2 owner's Ex used a fire extinguisher to bash the panel and then set it off inside the cabin (yeah, really).

    Then a local A&P-IA and partner bought it and rebuilt it over a year (I saw it in process and know the A&P well -- older air show types will know him, I'm sure).

    The airplane was disassembled and carefully re-assembled and nicely re-done. When the partner's son contracted terminal cancer at 12, the airplane had to go. The current owner bought it then.
     
  17. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    8,452
    Location:
    Lee's Summit, MO

    Display name:
    Greg Bockelman
    Well, it came across that way.

    Your opinion.

    I tend to assume any plane more than a few years old has had a damage history. I have seen planes advertised as NDH that upon subsequent inspection DID have damage, so having it there or not having it there isn't a big deal. That is what pre buy inspections are all about.

    Where did you see that?

    Frankly, I don't trust what anyone else says about what speeds they get, including you, Henning. People tend to look at things through "Rose Colored Glasses" and see what they want to see. Besides, there are a lot of variables to be considered.
     
  18. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    22,414

    Display name:
    steingar
    Tough crowd. Good luck with the sale.
     
  19. TMetzinger

    TMetzinger Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    9,885
    Location:
    Northern Virginia

    Display name:
    Tim
    My first Tobago had an STEC 40 with altitude hold.

    EDIT: I think it was added later and they never changed the faceplate.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  20. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    15,494
    Location:
    Dallas

    Display name:
    Spike Cutler
    I have come to realize that, if you add the S-Tec PSS to a 20 or 40, you end up with a better autopilot than if you had a 50 or a 30 with altitude-hold in the first place. The PSS will intercept glideslopes and the like, while the 30/50 will not.
     
  21. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    19,070
    Location:
    UQACY, WI

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    Greg,

    The speeds kind of shocked me as well. I've got a gazillion hours in the 182 and it will consistently do a little better than 130 knots/150 mph true. I plan 130 knots and usually get about 133. Like you said, there are a lot of variables, but most of them don't make a whole heckuva lot of difference.

    I would think a 205 would be able to do a little better than the 182, or at least match it. 130 mph seems REALLY slow. Is there something particular about the 205 that would cause it to be that slow? Or is this one just way out of whack?

    FWIW, according to pilotfriend.com, the C205A should be one knot slower than the C182N that I fly.
     
  22. tonycondon

    tonycondon Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Messages:
    15,263
    Location:
    Wichita, KS

    Display name:
    Tony
    the 182 is narrower, shorter, has a shorter wing (I think) and weighs less.

    i gave a flight review in a really nice 205 a few months ago. really neat airplane.
     
  23. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL

    Display name:
    iHenning
    The first add said 300hp

    Well, I always wear rose colored glasses, have been since my first pair of SunClouds years ago, but how that would effect my view of speed in POS airplanes that I flew for another guy to haul skydivers and oilfield bits and pieces with I'm not sure.
     
  24. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    19,070
    Location:
    UQACY, WI

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    And 30 less horsepower - I think the 205 was originally called the "Super Skylane" and I figured they added the right amount of extra power to at least have Skylane performance if they were going to call it "Super."

    It is a cool airplane.
     
  25. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,956

    Display name:
    -
    I'm thinking the kts and mph are confused. 10gph at 110kts and 14gph at 130kts sounds a bit more in line. Then again, 0hrs 205 time.
     
  26. gprellwitz

    gprellwitz Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,882
    Location:
    Romeoville, IL

    Display name:
    Grant Prellwitz
    My impression was exactly the same as Kent's. He and I both made a point of including both MPH and knots in our post. Even 130 knots sounds slow to me, because I expected it to be faster than the 182.
     
  27. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    22,414

    Display name:
    steingar
    The airplane isn't slow, it's stately.
     
  28. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc
    130 MPH is actual speed -- sure I've seen 140, but Venus has to be aligned with Mars and I have to lean forward and say "Com'on!"

    Of course I've seen 170 KNOTs in this airplane. But that was groundspeed.

    I've flown a straight 182 and a T182RG and while it's similar to the 205, there are still some differences. The 205 doesn't feel as nose heavy. The 205 also is easy to manage on a full power, full up trim go-around (for normal strength humans). The 205 also seems more spacious in width, and of course in cabin length (though I don't have comparison numbers handy).

    The one shining advantage the 205 has (and what would make it a decent rough field trike) is the spring steel gear. I also like the 40 degrees of flaps.
     
  29. W. Stewart

    W. Stewart Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Messages:
    268
    Location:
    NC

    Display name:
    W. Stewart
    Good luck with the sale, but I think you need to lower your price expectations a good bit. While you are free to set any asking price, I will be very surprised if you come anywhere near that figure.

    I was able to buy a FIKI 1980 IO-550 Cessna 210 for $115k, and that was 2 1/2 years ago.

    Wells
     
  30. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,956

    Display name:
    -
  31. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc
    POH says 126 Knots. No idea who maintains "Pilot Friend" -- do you?
     
  32. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc
  33. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,017

    Display name:
    Wayne
    Not off-hand, but sounds like someone every airplane seller should know.

     
  34. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,956

    Display name:
    -
    No, but the numbers are spot on for a lot of airplanes. You can contact them with updated information.

    Even so, 100k for a 113kt bird. Eww.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  35. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    19,070
    Location:
    UQACY, WI

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    That's where I looked, and I compared it to the C182N numbers, for I know one of those intimately. The C205 is listed as one knot slower than the C182N. I plan 130, realistically I usually get 133. So I would think it should be a 130-knot bird.
     
  36. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,690
    Location:
    Central Illinois

    Display name:
    Bruce C
    Former owner of N8411A, here. It's a nice specimen, and I wish your friend well, but the highest these birds go for, is about $75-80 and that would be with a young engine.

    135 knots is what you get, with everything shaking out.
    Was a Wonderful plane for Four + Mother in law at that time of our lives.....
     

    Attached Files:

  37. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc

    Thanks -- I simply posted what he's asking.

    135 Knots is about right with some load (at least enough to get that loooong arm aft). one or two up it's a bit less.

    I'm impressed with the load hauling capability of this airplane. It's an impressive combination of capacity, lift, and efficiency.
     
  38. dmccormack

    dmccormack Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    11,008
    Location:
    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

    Display name:
    Dan Mc
    Flew today and tried various prop/ MAP combinations in level flight:

    At 23"/2300 RPM with 2 up and full fuel IAS 128 knots, 12 GPH
    24"/2400 = 132 knots, 14 gph
    25"/2500 = 134 knots, 16 gph
    20"/2200 = 110 knots, 8 gph
     
  39. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    19,070
    Location:
    UQACY, WI

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    That sounds better - At 6,000 feet that's roughly 143 KTAS.

    Or did you mean 128 mph IAS?
     
  40. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL

    Display name:
    iHenning
    Imagine that....