Flying to Sedona - NEVER?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by CC268, Jun 14, 2016.

  1. dans2992

    dans2992 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    It's a 5100' runway. Not short, but it does have a decent downslope in one direction.

    Unless there are very high winds, land on 3, depart on 21. That's also better for terrain clearance as well.
     
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  2. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My first and only time in Sedona was in a C-414 at night. Since apparently I don't know any better I did a slightly steeper than normal approach and put the wheels down on the numbers instead of at the 1000 footers. I don't remember the winds but I was using differential power and rudder to stay aligned with the center line.

    I would remind people that are not used to high density altitudes to check and double check performance numbers before going there. At my home airport the summer density altitude can top 10,000 ft. More than one plane landed and then waited until 4 or 5am to leave again.

    Just another flight in the high desert.
     
  3. danhagan

    danhagan Pattern Altitude

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    The other Dan already beat me to it ... runway is 5132 feet.

    My home field runway is also on a mesa ... there are plenty like that in my area. Wind accelerates "over the ledge" which leads to lots of "sinkers" (downdrafts) on approach ... landing a little long cures a lot of these mesa problems. Be ready to go around if you don't like what you see.
     
  4. CC268

    CC268 Final Approach

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    I guess I am glad I did a lot of my PPL training during the warm months (and took my checkride on a HOT day - and we did all my landings/takeoffs over at Falcon on the short runway 3800'). Granted that is only about 5000 DA on a hot day...but I have flown to Payson on my own on a warmer day and flown to Sedona and Prescott as well...so I am glad I have experienced what high density altitude is like to some extent.

    I remember the first time I flew to Prescott with my instructor...we did a touch and go on the really short runway over there...I couldn't believe how bad the performance seemed/was - I thought we were never gonna climb out of there!
     
  5. Z06_Mir

    Z06_Mir Pattern Altitude

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    When I was in college (at ASU) I had a professor who lived in Sedona. He spent almost the entire first class complaining about the airport, how noisy it was, how dangerous it was, how jet fuel was getting dumped on the locals. I kept my mouth shut and didn't go to that class often enough to know if he continued to complain about it. At that point in time I think had either my CPL or my CFI already so I'd been there multiple times. I didn't go to his class much.
     
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  6. dans2992

    dans2992 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Let me guess, he taught something in the "arts" not the "sciences"....?
     
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  7. Z06_Mir

    Z06_Mir Pattern Altitude

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    Fundamentals of real estate I think it was.
     
  8. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Umm...I think that's required by the FARs for any such airport, is it not?
     
  9. Bobcat1

    Bobcat1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Sedona? It's an interesting place to fly into. I used to fly into there at least once, maybe twice a day in a 402. No big deal once you get used to it. If you lost an engine on takeoff, you might have to dip a little below field elevation on a hot day before you'd begin to stagger back up to altitude.
     
  10. Kim Smith

    Kim Smith Pre-Flight

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    I have read some where about Sedona flying that it is not an environment where any aircraft should flying close to ground except on take off and landing.
     
  11. Bobcat1

    Bobcat1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You can read and hear a lot of things from folks who've never been there. Yeah, it's a little bit different, but not really dangerous.
     
  12. Bobcat1

    Bobcat1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Probably because 70% of the airplanes there don't have electrical systems, thus no radios. He can't be bothered to make a pattern, as straight ins are frowned upon there, big time.
     
  13. Bobcat1

    Bobcat1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    They do have vortex tours there, and there's supposed to be a vortex out near the airport. What one of us should do, is get an Elvis costume and pop out from behind a rock or tree when the tour stops there.
     
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  14. txflyer

    txflyer En-Route

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    Fly it like you STOL it ♦
    Can't wait to fly in to Sedona some day.

    As far as all the DA concerns, get a lift reserve meter.
     
  15. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    I've been in there with a jet. Overall I didn't find it that bad other than making the numbers for departure.
     
  16. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    From my experience of flying with him, that's highly unlikely to be true.
     
  17. Eagle 2000

    Eagle 2000 Filing Flight Plan

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    Flew out of (and into) Sedona a couple of weeks ago. Taking off in a 180HP C172 at MTOW was interesting, but it performed exactly as per the book. With hindsight I would do two things differently. First I would take off on 21 (downhill with a small tailwind) rather than on 03 (into wind but a slight upslope) and second I would take off flapless instead of with 10 degrees. Once airborne I had to fly level before building up enough speed to clean up, and even had to dink right to avoid the high ground shortly after takeoff.

    But it is a great and memorable airfield, with friendly service and a nice restaurant. One of life's great flying experiences.

     
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  18. colojo

    colojo Line Up and Wait

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    Eagle 2000, I see you shoot with a VIRB, as I do. You should install the prop filter... the results are amazing. Great video of a beautiful area, though!
     
  19. Scrabo

    Scrabo Pattern Altitude

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    Flew up there Wednesday morning for breakfast, it's a once a month destination for us. Wish I had a camera mounted like you guys.
     
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  20. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer En-Route

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    Great thread, and excellent videos. :D

    I plan on going there in a month or two. Catalina will be good practice for some aspects of Sedona.
     
  21. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    This is a trick my old mountain pilot instructor used to demand at Leadville.

    Reason: The runway is plenty long... You don't need the additional lift, you need the additional speed and less drag to get to Vy sooner.

    It's a good call if you have plenty of runway and no obstacles to clear.
     
  22. rvator51

    rvator51 Filing Flight Plan

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    it really helps to get there early in the mornings. The winds usually start to build and get gusty by late mornings.
     
  23. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer En-Route

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    Another Sedona first-timer here. I wasn't really planning on it, but the weather forecast looked so good yesterday that I made a spontaneous trip there. Decent tailwind at 9500' on the way out, so I was doing maybe 185-190 mph ground speed; at 8500' on the way back, around 150-155. DA on the outbound leg was about 11,300'. About 5.3 on the Hobbs total.

    Very calm when I landed, around 10 a.m. Sight picture of the runway, and high TPA had me high on approach, but I slipped 'er down no problem. Landed on 03 and took off on 21, as others have said. It was cool to see a bizjet on approach as I was midfield to downwind for 03.

    The restaurant rocks! The breakfast potatoes are especially good. Friendly folks in the FBO as well. I was so inspired by the scenery. This is why we fly these little airplanes!!! I didn't see any of those harmonica virgins that people always talk about, though. [​IMG][​IMG]

     
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  24. Ryan Young

    Ryan Young Pre-Flight

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    Just so happens that Sedona is my hometown and I joined this forum just this morning because I'm thinking about becoming a pilot. I thought that having an airport in town might aid in that but I'm thinking maybe that's a misguided theory now.

    On a side note, ya the idea of a localized radial function in Sedona is a laugh considering the terrain. I think they picked "vortex" because it has a V and an X in it. If you're gonna draw people in with bad spin (pun intended) at least have some foundation, magnetism for the ferrous sandstone or something... Sorry, I'm ranting now.
     
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  25. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Nah... you can learn to fly anywhere. Local instructors know how and when to get it done.

    Welcome by the way!

    Some airports and areas of the country are more challenging to train at, but there's always flyable days.

    An old instructor friend of mine taught for years in Cheyenne, WY where the wind is always howling. He always jokes, "If I didn't solo my students in anything over 20 knots of wind, they wouldn't know how to fly when it's that calm anyway. It's all they ever did!"

    Call up the local flight school and do an intro flight. You'll be hooked. And the old Warren Miller ski film quote is a favorite of mine: "If you don't do it this year, you'll just be one more year older when you do." :)
     
  26. Ryan Young

    Ryan Young Pre-Flight

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    I guess on the flip side it could also be a bit of a right of passage of sorts...