Flying to Canada. ?

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Tom-D, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    as it stands now, you are allow to fly over Canada to land in the USA.

    what happens when you are forced to land in Canada ?
     
  2. A Martin

    A Martin Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Mostly it is about customs and immigration .... I was told (taught) the proper way is to remain in the aircraft , dont even touch the ground with your big toe , place a call to ATC or police and they will do a quick check similar to driving across the border.

    Plus you need a good reason to have landed , engine problem or weather etc.
     
  3. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    What if the airplane's on fire? ;)
     
  4. FORANE

    FORANE En-Route

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    Eh? Forced to land? With your pistola or without?
     
  5. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    that could get troublesome.
     
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  6. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach Gone West

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    Do you mean a scheduled stop, such as for fuel? Or a possible unscheduled forced landing due to weather/mechanical/etc.?
     
  7. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    As now we are not allowed to land in CANADA, so to overfly we must go direct, no stops.

    what happens when you must stop?
     
  8. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

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    ??? I take it you mean flying on your way to Alaska? Since you can still drive to Alaska from the lower 48 I would think landing to refuel in Canada is no big deal either provided you follow the rules. Know several people who drove vs fly this summer.
     
  9. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach PoA Supporter

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  10. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    "It’s safe to say the United States is still having quite a large problem keeping the COVID-19 pandemic under control. At the time of this writing, 183,000 citizens there have reportedly died from the disease, while fewer than 10,000 people have died from COVID-19 in Canada."

    That's some real journalism right there! :rolleyes: Think it ever occurred to the writer that Canada has roughly 10% of the population of the US? o_O
     
  11. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    In the context of this conversation, does that matter? A possible $750,000 fine for not expeditiously leaving Canada is the point pertinent to this thread.
     
  12. TonyG

    TonyG Pre-Flight

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    Yeah, when you factor in the population and do the actual math, they’re only 3 times better than us on deaths, and only 6 times better on cases. Do they suck or what?
     
  13. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    If that paragraph is so poorly written, I suspect the rest of the article.
     
  14. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    The numbers were correct at the time. But here's another source for you, same fine quoted:
    https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...andatory-for-individuals-entering-canada.html
    "The order will be fully implemented by the Canada Border Services Agency at points of entry by midnight tonight. The Government of Canada will use its authority under the Quarantine Act to ensure compliance with the order. Failure to comply with this Order is an offense under the Quarantine Act. Maximum penalties include a fine of up to $750,000 and/or imprisonment for six months. Further, a person who causes a risk of imminent death or serious bodily harm to another person while wilfully or recklessly contravening this Act or the regulations could be liable for a fine of up to $1,000,000 or to imprisonment of up to three years, or to both. Spot checks will be conducted by the Government of Canada to verify compliance."

    Since that was written, they are still under 10,000 dead. the USA is at what...188K by now?
     
  15. Everskyward

    Everskyward Experimenter PoA Supporter

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    In any case, it's their regulation. I think you could land in the event of a true emergency, but not a 'wink wink' one. Pretty sure they would investigate.
     
  16. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    I'm not going to debate covidiocy on this thread, or on this forum. ;)
     
  17. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach Gone West

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    Who said you are not allowed to land in Canada? That is not correct.
    I think the restrictions on tourism and sight seeing is still in place.
    However, if you are transiting from say WA to AK you can file an EAPIS for the border crossing and customs Port of Entry, a flight plan is mandatory (these apply going both ways and have nothing to do with Covid - they are actually US Homeland Security procedures). Due to Covid you now must show your full most direct routing, planned stops, overnight stops if any, and you have to have sufficient provisions on board for the expected duration. In other words you have to fly the route, you can't go off sightseeing, you have to minimize contact with others (which means going direct from airport to hotel and back again at any overnight stop, and carrying sufficient food).

    Also note that flight crew (that'll be defined crew listed on the EAPIS) are exempted from the quarantine rules by bilateral agreement of the USA and Canadian governments. That was to facilitate commercial air carrier crew, but it also applies to charter, corporate and private aircraft. That doesn't mean you can be a tourist, but it does mean someone like me can move back and forth across the border solo in my own airplane for legitimate business purposes without having to lock myself away for 14 days. However, what is deemed legitmate/essential is still up to the US and Canadian border agents, so I can't just hop in the plane and go.

    PoA member @kath (who is resident in Alaska) was flying around the Lower 48 in her 172 before the virus lockdown, and not that long ago, after the lockdowns started, flew back home to Alaska. She posted the information about her transit through Canada on a thread on PoA I recall.

    In the case of article linked in post #9 the guy told the Canadian border officials one thing and then proceeded to go do something different, presumably thinking once he was in the country nobody would know or care. As @kath will confirm, they are checking. It is especially easy to track a plane against the planned routing and time. They called her to verify her location as I believe she had a mechanical problem and lost some time enroute.

    I know a Canadian who got nailed by US CBP earlier during the lockdown when the restrictions were even heavier. He crossed planning to take a vacation, with the excuse that his lakeside cabin in northern Montana had a water leak, it was an emergency and he and his wife had to attend to it. The CBP arranged for a Montana Highway Patrol Trooper to meet them at the cabin to show him the (non-existent, fictitious) water leak. He and his wife cannot enter the USA for 5 years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  18. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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  19. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach Gone West

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  20. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Trying to know who is correct.. Our friend says you must go direct and not stop in Canada.

    this is was quoted.

    General Restrictions: The Canadian and US governments have arrived at a mutual agreement to extend restrictions on nonessential ground travel across the two nations’ shared borders through at least Sept. 21. Every province in Canada have their own COVID-19 restrictions in place for customers wanting to fly into Canada.

    Officials in Canada extended a ban on entry for most nonresident foreign nationals until further notice as part of the measures to curb the spread of coronavirus disease.

    We took that to mean You can't go there, so the alternative is go direct non-stop.
     
  21. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach Gone West

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    "Nonessential ground travel" means vehicles crossing at the land border points, not airplanes. The date has been extended to at least September 30 now.
    However, to fly across commercial or in a private plane still requires it be "essential" travel.

    What is determined to be "essential" or "nonessential" is at the sole judgement of the USA Customs and Border Protection agents for entry into the USA and the Canadian Border Services Agency agents for crossing into Canada.

    Flying your own plane home from the Lower 48 to your residence in AK, or the other way around, would be considered "essential" and the Canadian border agents will expect you to follow the steps in my earlier post. Flying to Canada to go sightseeing, for a fishing trip or to track down your best pal from college won't pass the test.

    The border agents seem to be gradually becoming a bit more relaxed from the reports I am getting, but as per the examples I wrote about above, trying to tell them a tale to gain entry as "essential" when the real reason is not, going either direction, is not a good idea. Bottom line, if you have a good reason to be transiting Canada by airplane you'll probably be fine. If you don't have a good reason, better to just stay home and enjoy that gorgeous west coast scenery y'all got where you are!
     
  22. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    That's what I believe too.
    The boat traffic have believable rules, they say as long you do not contact anyone you can stay on the boat you are go to go.

    check into customs as usual. both countries.
     
  23. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach Gone West

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    At least they are being sensible at the marine entry points. I had the Aztec out west on the coast near you in mid-August for my 95 year old MIL's funeral. Fantastic weather at that time. Which was good, because you can't do anything like a funeral with any significant number of attendees indoors. Enjoy what's left of the sunshine before the November rains start Tom!!
     
  24. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    We need rain. my lawn is dry as tinder, I have a nice dry shop :) Looking for a nice project. :)
    Nordhavn 43
     
  25. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach Gone West

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    THAT would be a serious PNW cruiser! Have you got one lined up to get back in shape?
    When I was out there in August I spent a bit of time looking at boats. I've always been a keelboat sailor, and have a brother in Edmonds that used to race Star Class boats. I'm trying to convince him we are too old for sailing and really need twin diesels with closed in cabin, proper heat, that sort of thing, so we should go 50/50 on a nice cabin class cruiser.
     
  26. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    we are trying to make it our home.
    kinda like
     
  27. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    right now we have more questions than answers
    6715489

    but right now Barb does not like to be broke
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  28. kath

    kath Administrator Management Council Member

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    Thanks for pinging me on this one, @GRG55... Here's the other thread where I described what it's like to fly through Canada on my way home to AK at the end of July:
    https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/monkey-made-it-to-alaska.127499/
    ...scroll down to post #9 for most of the full story.

    My understanding (from talking with Border Services on the phone in advance) was that the "nonessential travel" restrictions apply equally to transiting pilots* as they do to transiting drivers; being a pilot is by no means a free pass. GRG55's description of the situation is pretty spot-on; it is up to the customs agent that you meet at the border. I filed eAPIS and all that kind of "normal" border-crossing thing in advance. But the customs agent asked me more questions than usual due to the COVID restrictions, including details of my planned route, and about my ability to sustain myself (food-wise) without needing to go into town. My Alaskan permanent address no doubt made the convincing easier. But as I described in the other thread, they did definitely check up on me during the trip. I've got ADS-B, plus I filed flight plans for every leg. I had some MX on the way and fell behind schedule, and yes, the Canadian government called me on my cell phone when I was stopped there in Whitecourt and didn't continue on for what might have seemed (to them) like no apparent reason. I heard plenty of stories (including from Canadian Flight Service) about tracking down wayward pilots not following the rules.


    * (Who have to land in Canada, like I did)
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  29. Pascal Forget

    Pascal Forget Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Same problem for us Canadians. When I fly from Montreal, QC to Halifax, NS, I spend most of the trip overflying Maine. I carry my passport, just in case I need to land in the U.S. (emergency only). I expect local cops to put me in jail and having a lot of explaining to do a few hours later when the U.S. customs agent make it to the jail if that ever happens.