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flyguy_17

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flyguy_17
Hi all. I'm in a situation where I dont really know where to go from here as far as my flying career goes and would like some opinions. First, let me explain my background and current position:

I have been absolutly facinated and in love with aviation since I was a little kid. I got my first ride in a 172 as a gift from my parents for my 11th birthday and was hooked. I got a job at the local FBO when I was 15, earned my PPL (in the exact 172 that I tool that first ride in) when I was 17 and before I graduated HS, and had full plans of going to the Naval Academy and achieving my lifelong dream of becoming a Fighter Pilot. But, long story short, I met my future wife while in HS and allowed all my plans to fade away. Dont give me wrong, I wouldn't change the way that all worked out, and she did not purposely stop me, but I lost focus and let it slip away. I am now 27, married, have 3 AWESOME kids, and work as a Control Room Operator at a Coal Fired Power Plant. The pay is quite good and hard to walk away from.
So now I am trying to decide what my options are. I still dream of a career in aviation, I was born to fly and I dont want to just let life go by and find myself retired and wishing I had done things different.

I have logged around 250 hours (which I realize is very sad for having my PPL for 10 years). I still only have my Private and with a family, cutting work and going to a flight school is not really an option. I live in a small town that does not have a flight school, or even a CFI for that matter. I would like to at least get my Instrument and up through CFI. I think I could stay pretty busy instructing around here, but just being a CFI isnt really my goal. The problem there is that it will cost me around 10-15K to get up through my CFI from where I'm at and I dont exactly have that kind of money laying around with a family to support. I would really love to one day have a full time flying job, but it seems more and more like that is just a dream. I just have this deep deep yearning inside me that I was born to fly and thats what I need to do.

Any ideas on options or paths to take?
 
250 hrs in 10 yrs is nothing to be sad about. Plenty of people get their license and that's it. They stay at like 70 hrs and quit. It's obvious you have the drive, but it sounds like you don't have the funds or the ability to take time from work and train full time. Also, as you said you have no training facilities nearby anyway.

I could recommend at your age is to join the military. That way both the training and the pay are taken care of. Of course there are drawbacks to that as well, but at least it gets you on the path of becoming a professional pilot.
 
I would suggest that you keep on plugging away at things. You have a great family, it sounds, and the life of a pilot means a lot of time away from them. I've done it, and am happier being in my own bed every night, seeing my wife and son when I come home from work.

See if you can come up with a plan for working towards your ratings to get your CFI. Even if it's only a lesson every week or two, that helps satisfy your yearning. Or just relieve your wife for an afternoon and take the kids on a hundred dollar hamburger. That daddy time will be remembered later.

Since you have a family of 5, that makes it difficult to rent a plane that will fit you all. You'd be looking at an A36 Bonanza at a minimum, and the reality is that will get too small very fast as the kids grow. If you're happy with hundred dollar hamburgers, I'd seriously consider the daddy time option. If you want to take trips, maybe look at buying into a partnership for a plane that will haul the family, and doing that.

I was flying 500+ hours a year as a charter/corporate pilot. It was fun, but now I get to be home every night and I make enough money to fly my family where we want, when we want. Having been on both sides, I can say with confidence this side is nicer.
 
flyguy_17 said:
Hi all. I'm in a situation where I dont really know where to go from here as far as my flying career goes and would like some opinions. First, let me explain my background and current position:

I have been absolutly facinated and in love with aviation since I was a little kid. I got my first ride in a 172 as a gift from my parents for my 11th birthday and was hooked. I got a job at the local FBO when I was 15, earned my PPL (in the exact 172 that I tool that first ride in) when I was 17 and before I graduated HS, and had full plans of going to the Naval Academy and achieving my lifelong dream of becoming a Fighter Pilot. But, long story short, I met my future wife while in HS and allowed all my plans to fade away. Dont give me wrong, I wouldn't change the way that all worked out, and she did not purposely stop me, but I lost focus and let it slip away. I am now 27, married, have 3 AWESOME kids, and work as a Control Room Operator at a Coal Fired Power Plant. The pay is quite good and hard to walk away from.
So now I am trying to decide what my options are. I still dream of a career in aviation, I was born to fly and I dont want to just let life go by and find myself retired and wishing I had done things different.

I have logged around 250 hours (which I realize is very sad for having my PPL for 10 years). I still only have my Private and with a family, cutting work and going to a flight school is not really an option. I live in a small town that does not have a flight school, or even a CFI for that matter. I would like to at least get my Instrument and up through CFI. I think I could stay pretty busy instructing around here, but just being a CFI isnt really my goal. The problem there is that it will cost me around 10-15K to get up through my CFI from where I'm at and I dont exactly have that kind of money laying around with a family to support. I would really love to one day have a full time flying job, but it seems more and more like that is just a dream. I just have this deep deep yearning inside me that I was born to fly and thats what I need to do.

Any ideas on options or paths to take?
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Get a plane, fly privately, get your CFI and instruct on the side. One day a local Bizjet operator may pick you up. Keep your day job unless your wife has a job that supports the family. The pay and security in the industry sucks if you're hoping to go airline.
 
Velocity173 said:
250 hrs in 10 yrs is nothing to be sad about.
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I have twice as many hours, but it's taken 45 years to get there -- so you aren't alone.

I could recommend at your age is to join the military. That way both the training and the pay are taken care of. Of course there are drawbacks to that as well, but at least it gets you on the path of becoming a professional pilot.
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Things may have changed since I was in, but back then, the cut off for UPT eligibility was 26 and non-combat commissioning was 30. And that assumed that you already had at least a Baccalaureate. So, that route may already be no longer available.
 
oldShar said:
I have twice as many hours, but it's taken 45 years to get there -- so you aren't alone.



Things may have changed since I was in, but back then, the cut off for UPT eligibility was 26 and non-combat commissioning was 30. And that assumed that you already had at least a Baccalaureate. So, that route may already be no longer available.
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Yeah I was thinking he'd need an age waiver. Maybe not even possible these days. Of course the Army would take him up to 33 with no waiver.
 
I took a similar route. Getting your CFI is a really good goal, plus it gives you a reason to go flying. If you need to, plan a flying vacation where you take two weeks off to get a rating.
even if it is a rating every two years or so.
Plus once you get your CFI other people will pay you to fly.
I got my CFI on the two years/rating plan, I only wish I had gotten my CFI sooner because that was when I really started being able to fly, since other people were paying for it.

Like others have said, I think you will be happier keeping you flying as a hobby or moonlighting type of Job.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I would definitely keep your day job and chip away at the ratings as you can afford it. You said there was no CFI or flight school in your town. How far away is the nearest town that has these things?
 
Like you I was enamored with aviation from a very early age. They took me for a ride in a 172 when I was 11 and I could hardly wait until I turned 15 so I could get a student license and start taking lessons. That was 43 years ago.

But since that time I have never pursued ratings or professional status nor have I had a particular desire to fly for profit other than thinking at one time that I wanted to be a bush pilot. But I got married young and such career choices are not conducive to family life so I just remained a private pilot and it is something that I have always, and still do, enjoy a great deal. With somewhere less than 2,000 hours I've been to Alaska, Mexico, Oshkosh. I've done coast to coast flights a number of times - all leisure, no pay, no profit, always at my own pace.

A few years ago I downsized and now fly a 90 hp Champ. I also am restoring an 85 hp 1946 Luscombe. I have a hangar and I fly regularly, just about every week year round. I enjoy every minute of it.

So, my point is that there are different ways of going about it. Although I did instrument training the only additional rating I ever got was for seaplanes. I don't, nor do I have any need or desire to fly somewhere I don't particularly want to go at a time I don't particularly want to fly in crappy weather. Of course the downside is that there is a distinct possibility you may be hold up in a place like Gila Bend Arizona for a day or two (amhik) but that's all a part of the experience ;)
 
I don't see how you figure it's going to take 10 to 15k to get your instrument and CFI. You already have enough time logged. How do you come up with those numbers. Also, as Henning sort of alluded too for less than the cost of a full size SUV you could finance a decent airplane on a ten year note and reduce your training costs. Plus once you have your CFI you'll be in business for yourself. Didn't you say your local drome does not have a CFI ? Well - there ya go !
 
oldShar said:
Things may have changed since I was in, but back then, the cut off for UPT eligibility was 26 and non-combat commissioning was 30. And that assumed that you already had at least a Baccalaureate. So, that route may already be no longer available.
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When I looked at it Navy was 28 and Marines 27.5. You had to be commissioned by then, but they don't volunteer to tell you about the eligible waivers and credit for enlisted service (if you don't already meet the commssioning requirements). Either way, it's worth checking into.

Keep in mind that you can only take the ASTB twice in life and it's good for Navy, MC and Coast Guard. Get the study book before you take it (lots of maritime and celestial stuff in there IIRC).
 
Congratulations on being a great dad for all your kids, first and foremost. What a blessing.

Lots of folks have set aside aviation job dreams for practicality. There's nothing to be ashamed of in that.

I haven't looked into the hiring numbers in a very long time, but if you have the temperament for it and can afford to get through the schooling and uproot the family at least a couple of times to get there...

ATC is probably still an option at your age. Think about it. Great pay, great bennies, high stress (for some), but aviation-every-day and you'd have plenty of $ to buy an airplane for flying on your off days. Downside: Bad schedules and busy hubs for the newbies low on the seniority pole. Government job politics and shenanigans. Seniority system. (Yes, that's a downside to anyone who likes competing and getting the job done.)

Anyway, beyond that thought, flying is just a decision to be broke. ;) That's about it in a nutshell, really. But... There ARE affordable ways to fly. I don't think at 250 hours you're as far from a CFI as you think, if you really want it. You're looking at a max of 40 hours to the Instrument, maybe 10 to the Commercial, and another 10 to the CFI. Especially if you're not in need of the Multi-engine tickets. You'll be green as grass, but you'd have the ticket in your pocket.

Only do that if you really WANT to teach. Disinterested CFIs burning time who aren't teachers by nature, are going to be a black plague on aviation for a long time with the 1500 hour rule coming down the pike for the big iron folks.

I went to an aviation college degree program, dropped out to chase a tech career that took off overnight -- for many of the same reasons you stopped flying (but without kids to feed), and went 8 years without flying. Today, I have two great co-owners in our nice 182 and learned a lot about how to make my budget work with aviation over the years.

I enjoy every minute of my flying and have just under 500 hours in 21 years. Over 100 hours of that is THIS year. 250 hours at 10 years is nothing to scoff at. Some people never fly. Lots of people.

What I REALLY enjoy now is meeting new people and pilots. Met Jesse here on PoA, chatted privately for a while, and made a couple of "vacations" out of going to Nebraska and getting my Instrument Rating after all these years. Funnest challenge in a decade. Have met tons of pilots from all over the country and they're almost all completely wonderful folks.

Aviation as a job, would be fun. Aviation as recreation, is completely awesome.

Sometimes a dream skips a generation... You fly for fun, maybe one of the kids gets an interest and you get to grow old and proud of one of them when they suit up in their flying job uniform a couple of decades from now.

You have lots and lots of time left at 27. Just start flying somehow and you'll suddenly be the old guy at the airport who's teaching the kids. Gliders are a great inexpensive hobby, for example... And the world can use more good Glider CFIs.

I think with a good job in this economy and raising five kids, you're doing darn well. You should be proud of that and slowly mix in some flying for fun as budget and time allow. Flying is rough on families, I've got friends on marriage numbers three and four from a mixture of the stresses of being away from people and their own personal decisions in their aviation careers.

Just rambling thoughts. Be yourself... Don't dream of being someone else. :)
 
First of all I wanna thank everyone for your positive comments and uplifting words! I really appreciate it and you all seem like a bunch of good guys! Thats one of the many things I love about the aviation world and the people in it, most are very nice, polite, respectable people and I am proud to be a part of that!

To those that are suggesting the military, I would absolutely love that and it would be an awesome way to get a flying education, but I feel that really isn't an option anymore for several reasons. Mainly my family, being able to watch and guide my kids growing up. That is something I only get one chance at and wouldn't miss it for the world. I am very very close with my kiddos. I dont know how those that have families and serve this great country do it, but I have the utmost respect for them! Also, I think I would have a tough time concidering I do not have a college degree. I do have some college education, but never finished my degree (but plan to) and I believe it would be nearly impossible to "land" a flying job in the military given my circumstances.

I think I am definitly with you that are saying to keep plugging along at ratings and get my CFI. I love taking people up that have either never flown before or have that love for it like I do and I think helping someone earn their wings would be an awesome and rewarding experience. Like I stated before, we have no local CFIs, so I believe I could get some business. I live in a town supported by gold mines (northern Nevada), so the income/economy here is pretty good and people around here have money to play with. This will make getting my ratings a little more complicated, the closest CFI is 78 road miles (50 nm flying) but that will only help me build more x-country hours :yesnod:. Also, my old boss from the FBO who I still rent a 172 from, keeps telling me how bad he wishes I was a CFI, so I might have some options there.
Art VanDelay you asked where I got the figure on prices, that was a rough figure I came up with when looking into a flight school like ATP, but I believe that was including a Multi Rating, ect.
DenverPilot I want to say a special thank you for your input! A lot of good points and things to think about. The ATC route is one I have thought about a little before, but not a whole lot. Again there lies the problem with training to become one and the funds to do so while not being able to work my current job if I was to take that path. Also it would entail moving my fam to a large city to be able to do that. While not comletely against that, it would be a challenge to say the least. By the way, my daughter who is 4 has recently decided she absolutly LOVES flying with me and now cries if she knows I am going flying without her. I took her a couple weeks ago and actually let her have a little stick time...she quickly figured out the zero G maneuver and I couldn't get her to quit giggling or wipe the smile off her face (or mine)! It was awesome! I think she is hooked already and she already says she wants to get her license. I have twin boys that are 1 1/2 and cant wait till they are big enough to enjoy it. I tool them when they were about 6 months and they were asleep before we were wheels up haha. I'm thinking I better get my CFI and buy an airplane just to be able to train my own kids!!! Man this is gonna be expensive!!!

And then there is the whole new delima...buying an airplane..........:rolleyes:
 
Oh I thought of a couple more options/ideas I have ran through my head:

Move to Alaska, add on a float rating, and live the good life! My sister and brother-in-law were stationed at Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage and my wife and I had the privalage of spending a week there and she hasn't quit talking about moving there since. Sure is a beatiful place! Only draw-back is the whole life-expectancy of a bush pilot...not real high numbers. And you beter enjoy playing in the weather.

The other option I have concidered is becoming a pilot for the Civil Air Patrol. Although it doesn't actually pay, you basically fly and build time for free while helping otheres. And get some sweet perks such as cheap aircraft rental. Also a little tiny taste of that military dream, although not the real thing. My brother-in-law now lives in the same town as I do and is intrested in starting a CAP wing here. With his Air Force background, this may actually be possible. I am already the sole pilot for our local Sheriff's Office Search And Rescue and I love going on missions! Any CAP Pilots on here?
 
flyguy_17 said:
I'm thinking I better get my CFI and buy an airplane just to be able to train my own kids!!! Man this is gonna be expensive!!!
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I taught my son last summer...a dream come true for me. With your CFI ticket and a cheap C-150 it isn't all that expensive to teach them.
 
Your opportunity cost should be considered. I would highly recommend that you become an artist or rock star rather than a professional pilot. Better financial prospects. One sure what to ruin a love of flying is to do it for a living. It is a real crappy job. if you don't believe me then go get a part time job taxi or limo driver in your town. See how it goes doing something on someone elses schedule. It is nothing like flying as a hobby.

My son works for power company and makes about $85k a year. Luckily for him he does not have the pilot bug and want to Spend tens of thousand to make $19-29k for 5 years to become first pilot in a large jet or capt in a small regional. In the military you are away for 15 months at a time possibly but as a pro pilot you are away 80% of the time. I guess you'd feel closer as you can call them on the cell phone each night from the hotel.

But if he my son did want to do it, I'd recommend he buy a Cessna 150 or Cherokee with mogas stc and fly the **** out of it to build time, even take his friends on holidays/weekends with him splitting gas and expenses. To get the absolute most amount of hours for the least amount of cost. Probably fly to every state in the Cont USA while he is at it. Probably something approaching 750 hrs in a few years while still keeping the day job that pays for it all and pays his mortgage and child costs. You can get all the time you need in a simple low performance a/c and then rent high performance or complex for 10 hrs for your commercial sign off and check rides. You can build multi time once you get that sign off as CFI and not have to pay for that time.

I owned a Cherokee and got something like 650 hrs in it with mogas stc and I think it cost me $20 per hour for fuel, $10 per hour in maintenance, $600 per year insurance (I didn't always buy insurance but when I did it was only $480). I did 400 hrs the first 2 years. Other cost, I hangar-ed it at $1440 per year and then I put it on tie down for free for the next few years. I sold the plane for 80% of what I paid for it 6 years earlier so I am sure I didn't pay nearly as much for that 650 hrs what you might pay atc for ppl/Ir/Commercial package.

Plus all of the flying was self directed vacations, meeting other pilots for lunchs, weekends, flying to Grand Cayman islands, all the air shows, California and Florida trips you name it. So plenty of fun vs the militaristic cadre at an ATC to flight academy.

They been saying for 9 years that their is a shortage of pilots an that it is going to become acute. You would think this makes salaries go up? But that has not materialized in the last 9 years that I have paid attention.

My recommendation is to buy a small plane, enjoy the hell out of life, build your time and certificates, get multi rated and fly other peoples twins for free or getting paid to sign them off. Once you are at that point you can sell your tiny plane and fly off the fat of the land and if those really good pilot jobs materialize then you will be AOK ready. Alternately you can use the $15-20k you might have used to buy a plane to take your vacation and try to run through flight school fast track and then what?

What ever you decide good luck.
 
Pay off the car and buy a plane. That's what I'm doing. After 10 years I finally realized I don't need a new car every three years. I'm just going to stick with the one I have, pay it off, and buy a plane. Cut down on a lot of the other toys I don't need in my life that I felt were a necessity at one time just because I had the money.

From what you said you have a pretty good paying job. Pay off the cars, keep the toys at bay and you should be financially stable enough to at least go into a partnership if not buy your own plane under $50,000.
 
Kevin H. said:
Pay off the car and buy a plane. That's what I'm doing. After 10 years I finally realized I don't need a new car every three years. I'm just going to stick with the one I have, pay it off, and buy a plane. Cut down on a lot of the other toys I don't need in my life that I felt were a necessity at one time just because I had the money.

From what you said you have a pretty good paying job. Pay off the cars, keep the toys at bay and you should be financially stable enough to at least go into a partnership if not buy your own plane under $50,000.
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Exactly! Smart Kevin.

Don't even need a $50k plane to build hours. I bought a $20k plane, racked up almost 1100 hrs on it in time I had it and sold it for $16k. Total maintenance while I owned it including annuals worked out to $10 per hour. Using mogas cut my hourly variable costs almost in half. Just like today $6 for avgas $3.14 for mogas...x 7gph. The mogas savings more than pays for a new engine, upgraded electronics or other things you might want to do. There is always some risk of high dollar maintenance but that is managed by careful shopping and knowing about maintenance and planes.
 
My CFIs advice from 20 years ago still applies for anyone wanting a job flying...

"Fly your *** off."

His understated point back then was to do it however, whenever, and in whatever one could get their hands on that could safely be taken aloft.
 
My $.02.

If your making a good income, and you have a family. Go for your CFI, and do it as a part time job. It will be something you can do as well after you retire.

Years ago I went to Colorado State and joined Air Force ROTC hoping to get the backing to fly. They wanted me to jump from planes instead, so I left. My next conquest was to try a flight academy, which was out of my reach due to cost. After many years, and not knowing much about aviation I finally learned a lot more about GA. Right now preparing for my check ride, and I would be happy to be a CFI part time if I could. I could be just as happy just being a pilot for recreation.

I am single, with no kids. Being able to up and move is much easier. For someone married with kids, it is not so easy. If you are going into something other than being a CFI, you never know where you might end up going to bust your foot in the door. While your low on the income starting out, is there going to be a good enough job for your wife to support you and your kids? Who knows though after building many hours of flying as a CFI, and meeting people, maybe something falls in your lap.

I digress. My blabbering fingers.
 
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