Flying in Germany / Renting a plane

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by sba55, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. sba55

    sba55 En-Route

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    I'm going to be in Europe/Germany quite a bit this summer, and I'd love to put my certificates to good use. Sadly, it seems like flying in Europe, and Germany in particular, is completely over-regulated.

    So, does anybody here have any experience with renting a decently equipped plane in Europe? N-registration would probably be advantageous. Or should I just not bother, given the very onerous regulations?

    Thanks,

    -Felix
     
  2. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I have sent a rfi to a German pal.
    DT
     
  3. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Seems like Ed Guthrie used to do that regularly. Don't know where he hangs out these days.
     
  4. sba55

    sba55 En-Route

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    Thanks Dave and Bill!
     
  5. flyersfan31

    flyersfan31 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Keep us posted on what you find.
     
  6. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    There is a N-register 172 available for rent near Cologne. I believe it is a post-restart models with IFR avionics.

    Plenty of other N-register planes, few if any of them available for rent to strangers.

    If you spend a fair amount of time in germany, you may want to just get temporary recognition of your FAA license which will allow you to rent a D-register aircraft. It requires a trip to the equivalent of the FSDO. You need:
    - your FAA license
    - current medical
    - proof of 3 takeoff 3 landings within the preceeding 90 days (it is customary in germany not to sign your own logbook but rather to have it signed by either a CFI or the local designee of the civil aviation authority, if you want to avoid some goverment servant getting nitpicky you may just ask a local CFI at your place to attest that those flights took place)

    The permit is good for 6 months. After it expires, you have to wait 12 months until you can get another temporary permit. I believe you are limited to day VFR.

    As fewer pilots own personal aircraft, there is usually a provider of rental planes at any GA airport. You will probably need a checkout with a CFI, if possible try to get the checkout with someone who is familiar with the differences between the FAA world and the local regulations (e.g. there is Class F controlled airspace, something we don't know here, no unattended airports, lots of PPR airfields, more stringent noise regulations requiring non-standard patterns etc.)

    It is not going to be cheap. Fuel prices, high labor cost for maintenance and high tiedown cost combine for eye-watering rental cost.
     
  7. conyersj

    conyersj Filing Flight Plan

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    Darmstadt did have a German-American aero club with N-registered aircraft, not sure it's been 4-5 years since I've known of it. Mannheim also had an American (Army) club, you'd have to be a guest or affiliated in someway with the US Military/DOD/government however. Mainz-Finthen also had an Aero club and if I recall correctly had N-registered aircraft. Old military installation but the airfield is still in operation for the club.

    It's been a couple of years but a 152 ran about $200-225 an hour, really restricted. You pay fees for everything.
     
  8. flyersfan31

    flyersfan31 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You would probably be ok going up with a CFI. Wouldn't hurt anyway. N number and FAA license would be irrelevant.
     
  9. sba55

    sba55 En-Route

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    That's a lot of good advice. Thanks! I'll let you know what I find ($200+/hr for a 152 is crazy. I was hoping for a Baron, but that would probably be $1500/hr then :p).

    -Felix
     
  10. German guy

    German guy Cleared for Takeoff

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    Hi Felix,

    these are the websites of the military flying clubs in Darmstadt (actually they are in Egelsbach) and Mannheim:

    http://www.flydfc.com/
    http://www.colemanaeroclub.com/

    However, I don't know if they rent planes to persons who are not members of their clubs.

    There is also a magazine which offers a nicely equipped, N-registered Grumman Tiger for rent. Sadly their website is only German, however you find an e-mail address at the bottom of the page:
    http://www.pilotundflugzeug.de/servlet/use/Store.class?front&tn=sp_leserflugzeug

    Here are two lists with N-registered planes for rent, again only in German, they also seem to be not up to date:
    http://www.us-ppl.de/nregistry.html
    http://www.dr-schwahn-aviation.com/n-flugzeuge.htm

    If you want to fly D-registered planes in Germany, you will have to let your US-license be validated. The regulations can be found here under point 4:
    http://www.lba.de/cae/servlet/contentblob/34104/publicationFile/1810/nfl_ii495e.pdf

    Please be prepared that flying in Germany is much more expensive than in the USA, you will everywhere have to pay landing fees and most of the airfield are closed weekdays and just grass. Service is usually zero and there are basically no totally uncontrolled airfields like in the US. Even tiny ultralight airstrips need to have a person a at the ground who provides information about the active runway and who has to be there in case "something happens".

    Well - flying is Germany is fun, however you really need somebody who shows you how the system works over there. Except of the international airports you also shouldn't expect the guy on the radio of the airfield where you want to land to speak English.

    Always call the airfield by phone if it is a.) open and b.) if they are able to speak English on the radio (if you don't speak German).

    Cheers,

    Oliver
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2010
  11. Exocetid

    Exocetid Pre-takeoff checklist

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    What am I missing?

    Go find an airport and a CFI and go up for an hour or two.

    Do you speak German? They are very proud of their language and learning some phrases before you go will do wonders for your interface with them. They all know English quite well and it is the language of ATC, but nothing warms a German faster than an American's attempt at it as a gesture of good will.

    Ich wohnte in Deutschland drei Jahre, es war groƟ!
     
  12. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sure thats a good idea ?
     
  13. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Hey, Felix is single, and someone's gotta have th efun... he just shares a few snaps proving just how dull our lives are.

    That, and Yves seems remarkably able to end up where the not-very-ugly girls are.

    Also, I suspect Felix will approve of Yves' taste in cars.
     
  14. sba55

    sba55 En-Route

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    Wait Spike - have you met Yves? It sounds like you know a lot about him!

    Thanks for all the ideas everyone! Oliver, I'll be sure to check out those clubs....
     
  15. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Yves was extremely active on the BeechTalk forum, and several members visited him in Brussels (and I think one went to Oktoberfest with him). Based upon photographic evidence, they had more fun than most natural laws allow. Yves also seems to be fond of the ladies... the pretty ladies. As for cars, his daily driver is (IIRC) a Maserati. He flies a Twin Comanche.

    Unfortunately, there was a significant difference of opinion between Yves and the owners of BeechTalk, and Yves' content is no longer found there (I believe Yves requested its deletion).

    I know that, if I am headed that way, I'm gonna look him up... seems like a fun guy (as opposed, one supposes, to fungi). Definitely in touch with some flying in Europe mojo.

    Edit: If you want an emaill addy, PM me.
     
  16. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Posts containing full name and email address were removed by request. Gismo (Lance) has the info, and Spike may also have it.
     
  17. tonycondon

    tonycondon Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)

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    you should try to make a trip to the wasserkuppe. get some pictures. pete and i will be jealous
     
  18. Lance F

    Lance F En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I agree with Tony. I have flown power and gliders in Deutschland. Gliders are just as fun and a whole lot cheaper. Seems to me that about every village there has a glider club...many with great equipment. You can probably find a club that will let you join as a short term guest member.
    However, the language will be German and the altimeters in meters.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2011
  19. Dr. O

    Dr. O Pattern Altitude

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    Ah yes, life in the socialist paradise...

    I would be smug, but this country is thundering in that direction...


    denny-o
     
  20. clemi

    clemi Filing Flight Plan

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    Does anyone know about new regulations about flying N- registered aircraft in Europe with an FAA-PPL? Is it still true that I can fly a D- registered aircraft for 1/2 year with my up to date FAA PPL?
    By the way: I apreciate meters and kilometers as well as millibars.
    we all have different size feet, and the miles: statute, nautical, british, and the statute inches / brit. inches, feet, yards, miles, knots, mph. Not to speek of gallons and pounds and barrels which all relate in an uneasy way. There is one METER in Paris and that's it.
     
  21. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I didn't find it difficult at all, where will you be? As for renting a D- reg plane, it was quite simple. I went to the airport in Winningen and the guy there took my license and medical to the authority in town and I was issued a conversion license with PP VFR privileges. The only thing that it's tough on is your wallet, the airspace is pretty wide open and unrestricted. Wiesbaden has an N-tail C-337 that if you're rated the owner will rent to you if he likes you lol. There are more than a few N-tails to rent in Germany if you ant to ue IFR privileges, but then the costs mount up a bit quicker.
     
  22. Berry

    Berry Filing Flight Plan

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    To rent a plane in europe you can always visit www.vliegtuigentehuur.nl (means aircraft for rent.)
    You will find europeen and Nreg airplanes for rent.
    If i can be of any service please let me know.
     
  23. cirrusmx

    cirrusmx Line Up and Wait

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    campoalavista
    people complain that ga in the states is over regulated, restricted, and expensive. reality is that we have it nice and easy.
     
  24. Berry

    Berry Filing Flight Plan

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    Hai Campoalaviste
    I was a student in the states and got my license overthere. I agree with you .Europe is much more over regulated then the states.