Flying for God

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

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Jaybird180
A couple of church officials need to be flown occasionally and find out that a member of the congregation is a private pilot and owns an airplane that would be capable of 80% of the missions, which is about once or thrice per quarter.

Considering the pilot is not IR, he declines stating that he doesn't want to disappoint the schedule of the church leadership.

1- If the pilot changes his mind, can the occasional flight be taken? Are there charter or commercial pilot qualifications required?

2- Can the church in some way pay for or reimburse the pilot for expenses? If not, would the FAA consider the flights themselves 'goodwill' (the old good deed in exchange for a ticket to heaven)? Serious on the quid pro quo question.

3- The pilot is a longtime member and regular tither - the tax implications are boggling my mind...come back to that later.
 
I've thought about this, and I don't see that the "church" aspect matters to the FAA. So all the normal stuff applies - commonality of purpose, pro-rata sharing, etc.

Best thing would be if they had a commercial pilot in the congregation. Church could become a fractional owner of the airplane, and hire the commercial pilot for the flights. They could pay the guy or he could take it as a deduction, and there'd be no FAA issues.

Insurance and IRS issues are a whole different thing.
 
I fly our Pastor on occasion...don't take anything for it...don't take a deduction and simply enjoy my ability to do it...

Don't accept any money or consideration for the flights at all, ever.
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This.

Jaybird180 said:
A couple of church officials need to be flown occasionally and find out that a member of the congregation is a private pilot and owns an airplane that would be capable of 80% of the missions, which is about once or thrice per quarter.

Considering the pilot is not IR, he declines stating that he doesn't want to disappoint the schedule of the church leadership.

1- If the pilot changes his mind, can the occasional flight be taken? Are there charter or commercial pilot qualifications required?

2- Can the church in some way pay for or reimburse the pilot for expenses? If not, would the FAA consider the flights themselves 'goodwill' (the old good deed in exchange for a ticket to heaven)? Serious on the quid pro quo question.

3- The pilot is a longtime member and regular tither - the tax implications are boggling my mind...come back to that later.
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Get your instrument rating. :yes:
 
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck you'd better hope that if the FAA catches sight of it they think it's a pigeon.

It sounds like your friend is a nice guy for wanting to do this, but nice guys have been known to get crosswise with the FAA too.

Now I'll sit back and eat some popcorn. :popcorn:
 
I wouldn't take any compensation for the trips and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. ;) The sticky part is the compensation, no money, no problem. ;)
 
Actually receiving compensation can be tricky...and like Tim said, I believe the usual rules apply.

Donating your time and aircraft as a Private Pilot in support of church purposes and claiming a tax deduction is just as legal with the FAA and IRS as if you were flying for Angel Flight. Only tricky part is properly documenting it.

If you were serious about this, you might talk to the guys at Pilots for Christ http://pilotsforchrist.org/ They are a kind of like a Christian Angel Flight sort of thing and have been done that path.
 
Dead Stick said:
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck you'd better hope that if the FAA catches sight of it they think it's a pigeon.
It sounds like your friend is a nice guy for wanting to do this, but nice guys have been known to get crosswise with the FAA too.
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From my understanding, the "common purpose" for the trip issues only arise if:
1 - The pilot is being compensated for any portion of the cost, or
2 - The pilot is being paid while flying

I see flying a pastor with no payment changing hands is no different that flying for Pilots and Paws, or flying my sister to see her kids.
If no compensation of any kind is changing hands, how can it be considered a commercial operation?

It seems to me the FAA can't tell me who I can fly where, only who I can fly where for compensation (or any kind).
 
PilotAlan said:
From my understanding, the "common purpose" for the trip issues only arise if:
1 - The pilot is being compensated for any portion of the cost, or
2 - The pilot is being paid while flying

I see flying a pastor with no payment changing hands is no different that flying for Pilots and Paws, or flying my sister to see her kids.
If no compensation of any kind is changing hands, how can it be considered a commercial operation?

It seems to me the FAA can't tell me who I can fly where, only who I can fly where for compensation (or any kind).
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Looks like I need to read 91.146 more closely.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Actually receiving compensation can be tricky...and like Tim said, I believe the usual rules apply.

Donating your time and aircraft as a Private Pilot in support of church purposes and claiming a tax deduction is just as legal with the FAA and IRS as if you were flying for Angel Flight. Only tricky part is properly documenting it.

If you were serious about this, you might talk to the guys at Pilots for Christ http://pilotsforchrist.org/ They are a kind of like a Christian Angel Flight sort of thing and have been done that path.
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Thanks for the link
 
Jaybird180 said:
Looks like I need to read 91.146 more closely.
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91.146 covers charitable airlifts. The meaning of this is that people are paying for their ride but the money isn't going to the pilot/operator but to the charity.

This is a whole separate ball of wax form the original question asked here.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Looks like I need to read 91.146 more closely.
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Looks like you need to read 91.146 more closely.
Charitable event means an event that raises funds for the benefit of a charitable organization recognized by the Department of the Treasury whose donors may deduct contributions under section 170 of the Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. Section 170).

Community event means an event that raises funds for the benefit of any local or community cause that is not a charitable event or non-profit event.

Non-profit event means an event that raises funds for the benefit of a non-profit organization recognized under State or Federal law, as long as one of the organization's purposes is the promotion of aviation safety.
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Jaybird180 said:
What should be referred to instead?
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Nothing. It's a straight Part 91 operation.
You are flying with someone in your aircraft, on your dime, for no compensation, with no reimbursement whatsoever. No different than I offered to fly my neighbor to his daughter's graduation, with no money or other compensation changing hands.

If the church offered to pay for the fuel, or the GSA mileage rate, or the equivalent of an airline ticket, then it's a whole 'nother ball of wax.

So, what's the difference between this and me flying an airlift for Pilots and Paws?
 
Jaybird180 said:
A couple of church officials need to be flown occasionally and find out that a member of the congregation is a private pilot and owns an airplane that would be capable of 80% of the missions, which is about once or thrice per quarter.

Considering the pilot is not IR, he declines stating that he doesn't want to disappoint the schedule of the church leadership.

1- If the pilot changes his mind, can the occasional flight be taken? Are there charter or commercial pilot qualifications required?
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Depends who's paying.

If the pilot is paying 100% of the cost of the flight, no problemo.

If the pilot is sharing costs with the pax, then the pilot has to have a reason besides the flying to need to be at the destination. Otherwise, as the pilot is providing both the airplane and the piloting services, it's a part 135 charter operation.

If the church were to buy into the airplane and the pilot were a commercial pilot or ATP, we're back into no-problemo-land, regardless of who's paying for services or flight time or not.

2- Can the church in some way pay for or reimburse the pilot for expenses? If not, would the FAA consider the flights themselves 'goodwill' (the old good deed in exchange for a ticket to heaven)? Serious on the quid pro quo question.
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Nope. You're getting into Part 135-land, and not even God is exempt from the FAA regulations. Just ask 'em. ;)

flyingron said:
91.146 covers charitable airlifts. The meaning of this is that people are paying for their ride but the money isn't going to the pilot/operator but to the charity.

This is a whole separate ball of wax form the original question asked here.
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91.146 doesn't apply here, since it limits you to taking off and landing at the same airport - You can't go anywhere. 91.146(b)(1).
 
PilotAlan said:
Nothing. It's a straight Part 91 operation.
You are flying with someone in your aircraft, on your dime, for no compensation, with no reimbursement whatsoever. No different than I offered to fly my neighbor to his daughter's graduation, with no money or other compensation changing hands.

If the church offered to pay for the fuel, or the GSA mileage rate, or the equivalent of an airline ticket, then it's a whole 'nother ball of wax.

So, what's the difference between this and me flying an airlift for Pilots and Paws?
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Nothing, provided as you say that "You are flying with someone in your aircraft, on your dime, for no compensation, with no reimbursement whatsoever."
 
I fly a pastor around all the time, and I make him pay through the nose for everything.
I dare the FAA to make something of it.

Glenn
 
Habitat for Bahama's has a network of volunteers to fly in/out of Haiti's after the hurricane a few years ago. I get regular emails from them.

They ask that you collect donations for fuel and then fly missions for them.

It sounds to me that this would be technically illegal as one could argue that the free hours are compensation to the pilot.

I suspect FAA looks the other way....

Any comments?
 
I prefer to think that any trip I make with the Padre has a common purpose.

Shepherd said:
I fly a pastor around all the time, and I make him pay through the nose for everything.
I dare the FAA to make something of it.

Glenn
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OK. In the interests of full disclosure:
I'm the pastor I fly around all the time.

But, given the propensity for the FAA to find something illegal in just about everything, I suppose they could nab me on the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

:lol:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
If the pilot is sharing costs with the pax, then the pilot has to have a reason besides the flying to need to be at the destination. Otherwise, as the pilot is providing both the airplane and the piloting services, it's a part 135 charter operation.

Nope. You're getting into Part 135-land, and not even God is exempt from the FAA regulations. Just ask 'em. ;)
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Common religious mission?
 
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