Fly in Bed and Breakfast?

[ted gilbertson]

My wife and I have been thinking of moving somewhere where we could afford to buy a large piece of property. Was thinking of putting in an airstrip and opening a bed and breakfast. Kind of a camping deal with little cabins and horse back riding. Anyone think pilots would be in to that sort of thing. Maybe a little resterant for the $100 hamberger guys. I'm sure as of every thing in this country lawyers and insurance would not make it possible but it was just an idea to help pay some of the bills.(not to mension it would be fun as heck!!) So what does everyone think?

 

[imQ]

For years, I've flown over a piece of land east and north of Guthrie, Ok and had the same thoughts. There is what used to be a grass runway, with trees and a small large pond/small lake at one corner. I think it would be the perfect place to park a vacation cabin,(or two) with a tie downs. I don't know if the pilot community would provide enough revenue to keep it open, but it might be interesting to give it a try.

 

[Bob Noel]

My reaction is: do it because you love it, but don't expect to make any money.
(ask Jay Honeck how much effort his little hotel takes)

 

[One Short]

I'm sure it has been done somewhere. But I doubt any of them survive solely on fly-in customers. You might talk to the people at Double J J Resort (Rothbury, MI 42N) It sounds like kind of the same thing. I don't know how successful they are but they have a nice grass strip. :smile:

Barb

 

[alaskaflyer]

My reaction is: do it because you love it, but don't expect to make any money.
(ask Jay Honeck how much effort his little hotel takes)

For the first few years, you will have either a modest profit, OR personal time, but not both, and a good chance at neither These businesses typically rely on location (location location!) to bring business.

 

[ted gilbertson]

I was just thinking of something to help pay the bills and get me a little closer to aviation. I know about location, people here in Santa Barbara will pay ridiculous amounts of money to pretend they're in the country. I am a taxidermist so most of my work is from home. I want to have some career in aviation but it seems lke time is passing me up. Just thought if I could live somewhere that I loved and had a buiseness that would at least pay for it self and add a little joy in life what the hey! always wanted a restrant but don't like the hours. this may be one of my many day dreams but you can't stop dreaming. I may have brain damage because I still want to be any AG pilot.

 

[gprellwitz]

My father had a B&B in Ft. Lauderdale, and I can tell you that it was WORK! Youarent going to make a go of it if you restrict yourself to a niche of pilots. If, however, you are near an airport and provide transportation from the airport to the B&B and, even better, have a spare car for them to use, you have an additional source of customers.

We've stayed in the Winchester Guest House B&B in IN (I22) and had a good time. The owner, a pilot, drove a few miles in his new Prius to pick us up at the airport. I think we were the only pilots, or at least the only fly-ins, that they had that weekend.

 

[Danos]

My wife and I have been thinking of moving somewhere where we could afford to buy a large piece of property. Was thinking of putting in an airstrip and opening a bed and breakfast. Kind of a camping deal with little cabins and horse back riding. Anyone think pilots would be in to that sort of thing. Maybe a little resterant for the $100 hamberger guys. I'm sure as of every thing in this country lawyers and insurance would not make it possible but it was just an idea to help pay some of the bills.(not to mension it would be fun as heck!!) So what does everyone think?

I'd love to have something like that around. My lady and I are always looking for something like that. I'd visit yours but that would be one expensive hamburger.

 

[Skip Miller]

I'd love to have something like that around. My lady and I are always looking for something like that. I'd visit yours but that would be one expensive hamburger.

But the question is how often would you visit? Places like that rely heavily on repeat business unless there is an attraction offsite, like a National Park, or some cultural venue like a Nascar track.....

-Skip

 

[Jay Honeck]

My wife and I have been thinking of moving somewhere where we could afford to buy a large piece of property. Was thinking of putting in an airstrip and opening a bed and breakfast. Kind of a camping deal with little cabins and horse back riding. Anyone think pilots would be in to that sort of thing. Maybe a little resterant for the $100 hamberger guys. I'm sure as of every thing in this country lawyers and insurance would not make it possible but it was just an idea to help pay some of the bills.(not to mension it would be fun as heck!!) So what does everyone think?

My wife and I own the Alexis Park Inn & Suites in Iowa City, IA, located right next to Rwy 25 at the Iowa City Airport. It's a small, 30-suite (44 bedrooms), all-suite hotel, built in 1979-80. We bought the place in 2002, and have spent the last 7 years remodeling it into the nation's only all-suites, all aviation-themed hotel.

See us here: www.AlexisParkInn.com

We are members of the hotel-motel association, as well as the bed & breakfast guild (we're kind of a hybrid between the two). We're either a very small hotel, or a humongous B&B -- it depends on whose looking at us, and from what angle. (We deliver breakfast to each suite each morning.)

That said, we've learned three things:

1. You'll make enough money to nicely support your flying habit, but don't expect to get rich.

2. You'd better love what you're doing, cuz no one could ever pay you enough to work so hard.

3. You absolutely cannot rely on fly-in business. You MUST have alternate revenue streams.

There simply aren't enough pilots in the world to support a hotel. You must have a location that allows business from another source -- in our case, it's the University of Iowa and some other larger businesses. (Procter & Gamble, ACT, Oral B, etc.)

One example of a hotel that has been trying to make it virtually 100% on pilots: The Hangar Hotel in Texas. They've got a wonderful, new, scratch-built facility on the airport grounds, a terrific aviation theme -- and when we visited on a Sunday/Monday/Tuesday, we were the only guests in the entire place. It was truly painful to see. After years of trying, they are now in "survival mode", with the restaurant and bar moth-balled during the week in a desperate attempt to save money. It's agonizing to witness, because they've got a facility we could only dream of building.

So what's their problem? Their airport is miles from town, so the only people who can conveniently stay at their place are fly-in pilots. And we all know how far down GA flying is nowadays. There just aren't enough of us left flying to support a lodging establishment of any size.

I'm sure their weekend business is still good -- but that's another thing to remember -- you cannot survive on just Friday/Saturday business. There are 5 other nights of the week, and the expenses don't stop just because your guests left...

Our airport, on the other hand, is very close to town, making our location ideal for drive-in business, too. We're less than a mile from the University campus, downtown, etc. -- and that makes all the difference in the world. Our business is 97 drive-ins for every 3 fly-ins. (But of those 97, there are a helluva lot of "wannabee", current or former pilots...)

In the summer, of course, those numbers change. But you get the picture.

If you want to build something rather isolated (like, for example, Gaston's Resort), and you're just doing it for fun, go for it. If you're hoping to make millions, though, you'd be better off buying yourself a soul-less big-box 400-room chain motel near a commercial airport.

Good luck! You're embarking on the adventure of a lifetime...

 

[Steve Foley]

I still regret not buying 207 Paxton Rd in Spencer MA. Check it out on google maps. It's closer to my plane than the runway.

 

[ted gilbertson]

i was never intending it to be a pilots only theme. i just thought it would be an added attraction. its amazing how some of the small airports support can keep their resterants open.

 

[ted gilbertson]

well i have to say thats a huge bed and breakfast. great prices!! can't stay at motel 6 here for those prices. if i am every in the state i will for sure have to visit! thanks for the input!

My wife and I own the Alexis Park Inn & Suites in Iowa City, IA, located right next to Rwy 25 at the Iowa City Airport. It's a small, 30-suite (44 bedrooms), all-suite hotel, built in 1979-80. We bought the place in 2002, and have spent the last 7 years remodeling it into the nation's only all-suites, all aviation-themed hotel.

See us here: www.AlexisParkInn.com

We are members of the hotel-motel association, as well as the bed & breakfast guild (we're kind of a hybrid between the two). We're either a very small hotel, or a humongous B&B -- it depends on whose looking at us, and from what angle. (We deliver breakfast to each suite each morning.)

That said, we've learned three things:

1. You'll make enough money to nicely support your flying habit, but don't expect to get rich.

2. You'd better love what you're doing, cuz no one could ever pay you enough to work so hard.

3. You absolutely cannot rely on fly-in business. You MUST have alternate revenue streams.

There simply aren't enough pilots in the world to support a hotel. You must have a location that allows business from another source -- in our case, it's the University of Iowa and some other larger businesses. (Procter & Gamble, ACT, Oral B, etc.)

One example of a hotel that has been trying to make it virtually 100% on pilots: The Hangar Hotel in Texas. They've got a wonderful, new, scratch-built facility on the airport grounds, a terrific aviation theme -- and when we visited on a Sunday/Monday/Tuesday, we were the only guests in the entire place. It was truly painful to see. After years of trying, they are now in "survival mode", with the restaurant and bar moth-balled during the week in a desperate attempt to save money. It's agonizing to witness, because they've got a facility we could only dream of building.

So what's their problem? Their airport is miles from town, so the only people who can conveniently stay at their place are fly-in pilots. And we all know how far down GA flying is nowadays. There just aren't enough of us left flying to support a lodging establishment of any size.

I'm sure their weekend business is still good -- but that's another thing to remember -- you cannot survive on just Friday/Saturday business. There are 5 other nights of the week, and the expenses don't stop just because your guests left...

Our airport, on the other hand, is very close to town, making our location ideal for drive-in business, too. We're less than a mile from the University campus, downtown, etc. -- and that makes all the difference in the world. Our business is 97 drive-ins for every 3 fly-ins. (But of those 97, there are a helluva lot of "wannabee", current or former pilots...)

In the summer, of course, those numbers change. But you get the picture.

If you want to build something rather isolated (like, for example, Gaston's Resort), and you're just doing it for fun, go for it. If you're hoping to make millions, though, you'd be better off buying yourself a soul-less big-box 400-room chain motel near a commercial airport.

Good luck! You're embarking on the adventure of a lifetime...

 

[Jay Honeck]

i was never intending it to be a pilots only theme. i just thought it would be an added attraction. its amazing how some of the small airports support can keep their resterants open.

That's a good business plan. Pilots will add spice and interest, while the saner members of our society will provide the revenue stream you need...

:wink2:

 

[mikea]

If ya got a few $million to sink into it like John McAfee is doing?

Welcome to the world of the Sky Gypsies, members of a club dedicated to the new sport of aerotrekking. To join, you need two things: nerves of steel and a head for heights. This is one of the most exciting adventure pursuits around, and the premise is simple. Groups of pilots, sometimes as many as 40, take to the sky in these lightweight craft and head across the vastness of the deserts and mountain ranges of New Mexico and Arizona, skimming at times only a few feet above the ground.

Like a crazy band of airborne bikers, they’ll journey together for days at a time, stopping off overnight at small airports and runways. The landing strips form a 900-mile circuit specially devised and mapped. It’s a bit like ski pistes that allow skiers to explore a vast terrain safe in the knowledge that they can stop to relax and refuel at mountain restaurants.

...



They eventually found what has become their operational centre, in the sleepy little desert town of Rodeo, New Mexico, population about 200, a few miles east of the border with Arizona and about 90 miles north of the Mexican border. There was an airstrip and McAfee bought up an 80-acre parcel of land immediately around the strip as well as some other plots nearby.

Since then, he has built four large hangars for the craft and has added a large internet cafe with a 35-seat movie theatre, around which are dotted old, revamped Airstream trailers in which Sky Gypsies or visitors can spend the night for $45 (£22). McAfee and Irwin live in a villa on the compound, which has a constant stream of Sky Gypsies dropping by for coffee, snacks and “hangar stories” about their daily flying exploits.

Each of the six other stations McAfee has set up across the aerotrekking circuit also have airfields, hangars and access to fuel and food, with rudimentary but comfortable accommodation nearby. The lightweight machines with their open cockpits mean you get the sensation of flying like a bird. At the same time, the opportunity to fly along a predefined route means you won’t encounter sudden unexpected changes of terrain or obstacles.

...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/features/article2926892.ece

 

[wsuffa]

One example of a hotel that has been trying to make it virtually 100% on pilots: The Hangar Hotel in Texas. They've got a wonderful, new, scratch-built facility on the airport grounds, a terrific aviation theme -- and when we visited on a Sunday/Monday/Tuesday, we were the only guests in the entire place. It was truly painful to see. After years of trying, they are now in "survival mode", with the restaurant and bar moth-balled during the week in a desperate attempt to save money. It's agonizing to witness, because they've got a facility we could only dream of building.

So what's their problem? Their airport is miles from town, so the only people who can conveniently stay at their place are fly-in pilots. And we all know how far down GA flying is nowadays. There just aren't enough of us left flying to support a lodging establishment of any size.

I'm sure their weekend business is still good -- but that's another thing to remember -- you cannot survive on just Friday/Saturday business. There are 5 other nights of the week, and the expenses don't stop just because your guests left...

I like the Hangar Hotel, too.

They're really not very far from the town of Fredericksburg (not miles and miles), and they do have rental cars on-site. The real problem is that it's Fredericksburg.... (sorry, Spike) which is, at best, a weekend and leisure spot. Fredericksburg IS a great little town, but stress the word little. There is no major industry to speak of... it thrives on nearby wineries, antique shops, peaches (spring time), and the Nimitz House/Museum of the Pacific War. It's 90 minutes (at best) from San Antonio and slightly longer from Austin.

Given the economy, they're lucky to have a weekend business if they even have that. Summer might be a bit better, and certainly county fair time is probably good.

Oh,and the town has a LOT of small hotels and B&Bs.

I always wondered how they'd make it. I'm really surprised it's made it this long.

The key is traffic, and Fredericksburg just doesn't have the traffic that larger towns do.

 

[Jay Honeck]

I like the Hangar Hotel, too.

They're really not very far from the town of Fredericksburg (not miles and miles), and they do have rental cars on-site. The real problem is that it's Fredericksburg.... (sorry, Spike) which is, at best, a weekend and leisure spot. Fredericksburg IS a great little town, but stress the word little. There is no major industry to speak of... it thrives on nearby wineries, antique shops, peaches (spring time), and the Nimitz House/Museum of the Pacific War. It's 90 minutes (at best) from San Antonio and slightly longer from Austin.

Given the economy, they're lucky to have a weekend business if they even have that. Summer might be a bit better, and certainly county fair time is probably good.

Oh,and the town has a LOT of small hotels and B&Bs.

I always wondered how they'd make it. I'm really surprised it's made it this long.

The key is traffic, and Fredericksburg just doesn't have the traffic that larger towns do.

True enough, although you don't need a huge town to generate a lot of traffic -- you just need a major attraction to provide consistent off-season traffic. Ours is the U of Iowa.

We enjoyed our stay in Fredericksburg (the Nimitz Museum is a real gem!), and ate at a couple of good restaurants (I was partial to the brewery, of course!) -- but the weekday traffic in town was light-to-non-existent. (And this was in June, when the kids were off school -- peak vacation time, in theory.)

As I noted above, a hotel or B&B absolutely cannot exist on FRI/SAT business alone (unless it's just a hobby operation or a tax write-off, of course) -- and that's what the Hangar Hotel is trying to do. Mary and I would give our eye-teeth to be able to build a gorgeous new facility like theirs to our specifications (remodeling an older property is WAY harder than building new), but I don't think we could make a go of it in Fredericksburg, either.

Too bad, cuz we *are* looking to expand somewhere in the sunbelt...

 

[Richard]

But the question is how often would you visit? Places like that rely heavily on repeat business unless there is an attraction offsite, like a National Park, or some cultural venue like a Nascar track.....

-Skip

The B&B is the destination. Like this, I know of a pvt airfield on a working cattle ranch. The owners decided to open the field to fly-in to the public but only with prior permission.

The PPR is part of the reservation for the B&B, catered BBQ, horse rides, ATV rentals, and other attractions. Basically by offering many venues and activities, the ranch owners have created a destination. The owners do pretty well with this side biz especially during spring cutting when the city folk get to pay to play dudes on horses.

I know of another pvt field which is opened to the public (also through PPR) which offer campsites nearby a natural hot spring. The campsites range from "under the wing" to fully stocked small cabins. That particular place is busy year round with a waiting list for most months of the year.

As always location is important and it helps greatly if you own the land free and clear.

 

[colohan]

Another variation which I stayed at (for work) once -- Nemacolin resort.

http://www.nemacolin.com/

They have a 4000' paved runway running up the middle of the resort.

This place is as fancy as fancy gets (ostentatious, more accurately). As far as I can tell, this place must be losing money hand over fist given the lack of customers in the falling economy. But if you have lots of money to lose, this is one way of doing it in style. :smile:

Chris

 

[Jay Honeck]

Another variation which I stayed at (for work) once -- Nemacolin resort.

http://www.nemacolin.com/

They have a 4000' paved runway running up the middle of the resort.

This place is as fancy as fancy gets (ostentatious, more accurately). As far as I can tell, this place must be losing money hand over fist given the lack of customers in the falling economy. But if you have lots of money to lose, this is one way of doing it in style. :smile:

Chris

That brings up a couple of good points. Since we were essentially remodeling the entire hotel, back in '02, we could go to any pricing level we wanted, from rock-bottom to the Ritz.

We were aiming at the GA pilot market, so we decided that the fru-fru, over-the-top ostentatious approach was 100% *wrong*. Neither of us had any experience in the lodging industry (Mary's a med tech, and I worked in newspapers for 20 years), so we decided that the best approach was to simply design everything to be the way WE wanted a hotel to be. That meant hot tubs, delivered breakfast, free internet, LOTS of room, sparkling clean suites, a courtesy car for pilots, and reasonable prices. Add some cool stuff (free movies; a full-sized flight simulator, etc.) just to keep it fun -- and the recipe was complete.

This deceptively simple business plan has worked well, as it seems that most people seem to share our opinions of what's good (and bad) in hotels. Make your place something YOU like, and chances are others will like it, too.

 

[SCCutler]

For what it's worth, I still think the Hangar Hotel folks will make a go of it- they have really done an outstanding job of building up their conference and banquet facilities, and I often see them set up for large (and I mean really large) parties and the like. They do still book-up, from what I have observed, fairly frequently. Perhaps I am whistling by the graveyard, but they have facilities which are legitimately unique, and of use. One often sees the parking lot full of cars, as well as a ramp full of airplanes, so they are broadening their appeal, at least some. Guess we'll see.

Also, don't forget that, for them, the high season is not the summer- it's the winter, when Gillespie County is chock-full of people visiting from places like Wisconsin, Minnesota, and, yes, Iowa (one of 'em told me what "Iowa" stands for, no repeating here out of respect for my friends).

When we fly down there, it is true we sometimes arrive to a quiet ramp, but we also often have to scramble for a tie-down spot.

Maybe next time I go there, I'll hunt down the owners, tell 'em to put in a plug here and on other aviation boards- I've never seen anything like that done...

 

[Tristar]

For years, I've flown over a piece of land east and north of Guthrie, Ok and had the same thoughts. There is what used to be a grass runway, with trees and a small large pond/small lake at one corner. I think it would be the perfect place to park a vacation cabin,(or two) with a tie downs. I don't know if the pilot community would provide enough revenue to keep it open, but it might be interesting to give it a try.

I'm in stillwater, ok. If there was a B&B in Guthrie, I'm sure I would have shown up. BTW if you see the attendance for Ponca City's pancake breakfast, it would assure you there is no lack in general aviation around oklahoma.

 

[Flyfishingpilot]

If you own the airstrip, wouldn't the insurance alone be a major financial burden?

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

It's a good idea but the pilot side of it is so specialized that you should draw other groups to help pay for the pilots.

I have a sheltered slip for my amphibion at a local B&B which was already doing business all on its own in north Seattle on a big lake. Fractional owners of the amphib can use the lodging units and look at their bird bobbing on the water when not flying in the great NW. Also, there are bikes, canoes and a paddle boat to play with and restaurants all over the area. A BD4 in the yard adds more aviation to the water view.

 

[BillTIZ]

I still regret not buying 207 Paxton Rd in Spencer MA. Check it out on google maps. It's closer to my plane than the runway.

Perfect... just a little chilly in winter.

I visited Sterling MA last summer as found a couple of houses that would be nice.