Flight training costs

gprellwitz

gprellwitz

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Grant Prellwitz
A recent thread prompted me to ask this question. What do you consider to be the "right" way to market the total costs of a flight training program? We all know that people rarely finish in the FAA minimum time. And (almost) every student asks "how much will it cost me to get my license?" (Sorry Ed, but that's the word they use, right or not! :)) But should a flight school publish an amount based on:

  • the FAA minimum time,
  • the average time required at that school (if they have the records to determine it),
  • the national average (where would I get those figures?),
  • not quote a total at all
  • something else?
The student clearly would be interested in a way to compare one school against another, but I don't think that they're all quoting the same figures. The FAA minimums would be the most uniform, but hardly representative, if the student uses them for budgeting purposes. There's no right answer, so how would you fall on the subject?

And, for a more complex question, how about quoting costs for advanced ratings, e.g. commercial, instrument, or instructor?
 
When I thumb through FBO or flight school rate schedules, I like to see a break-down of where the numbers are coming from. That lets me compare their expectations with my actual experience and hours and see where I fall within their fee schedule.

As far as an 'intro' student, I would suggest a similar breakdown of airplane rental cost, instructor fees, etc., but with a range for the total cost. Maybe have the lowest cost be the "FAA Minimum" and the high end of the range be a bit above the "National Average". A solid explanation of what causes you to move within the range - frequency of training, general aptitude to learn the knowledge required, etc.
 
I have recently finished training for my certificate. What I was looking for was an accurate assessment of true cost associated with completing the program. I was not concerned with how the number was produced. I was more intested in it accuracy. That being said, I was told to expect between 45 and 50 hours of flight time, ground school time, books, test, check ride....etc.

I took my check ride at 40.2 hours and was about 20% over the projected cost. Not very accurate in my opinion.

I think they should present a historical average based on their students who followed their program from start to finish.
 
I'd say advertise on the basis of minimum hours, but show cost detail (projected hours and hourly rates, supplies, exam fees and the like) and explain that the national average is higher.

I think that's a fair way to go because there really is no way for a school/FBO to know whether the prospective student is going to be a star and turn out at 40 hours or will take more time. And then they don't get penalized by being too conservative.


Trapper John
 
The appropriate answer is "Every cent you have, and then some." ;)

The only way that I see to do it is based on average hours it takes based on experience, with the disclaimer "It may cost you more or less." You can itemize things fairly easily for fixed costs and put in a fudge factor. It probably costs the average person $8-10k to get a private, but can be done for as little as $4k.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The appropriate answer is "Every cent you have, and then some." ;)

The only way that I see to do it is based on average hours it takes based on experience, with the disclaimer "It may cost you more or less." You can itemize things fairly easily for fixed costs and put in a fudge factor. It probably costs the average person $8-10k to get a private, but can be done for as little as $4k.
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I would prefer to say every cent you can afford or are willing to allocate until you finish. For quoting purposes you can pretty well set the floor using 40 hours flight time, etc. The another example using the "average" time to license which I have seen but do not know where to find it.

Then add the "your experience will vary" based on a number of variables which can not even be guessed at. How many times will your exam be delayed due to weather and you'll go trhough a full refresher with your CFI, how long and where wll you decide to go on your cross countries, etc.
 
I get the question a lot, I'm sure we all do.

To complicate things our club charges on tach hours this is a big break for students who spend a lot of time taxiing back, low power maneuvers....

So I like to talk about a range of prices and the variables involved.

Then I suggest they budget $8K and say there is a very good chance of coming in under that.

They way I see it, if you significantly underestimate the price it can cause problems, but nobody will complain if you come in under budget. Granted you may loose potential customers if your estimates are too high, but I tend to have other problems with people who decide on training solely by the lowest bidder.

The factors:

  • Per hour flight time (range from cheapest to most expensive trainer on line)
  • Per hour instructor time (range for available cfis)
  • Number of flight hours (40-80) if regular 2-3 times per week expect 50.
  • Instructor hours about the same as flight hours maybe a bit more (assuming your on-time with plane preflighted when able), solo flight time is balanced against pre/post breifings, oral prep....
  • Medical $50-100 + additional tests if special issuance
  • Written $90 (at local CATS)
  • Practical $450 (local DPE)
  • Equipment: headsets, flight bag, kneeboard, E6B, plotter, charts, flashlights. $150-$500 depending on how cheap you are. More if you need a hand held, a 696. It's like golf, there's plenty of things in the pilot shop to make you think you can pay money instead of practice to get good.
  • Books, study material: Free (faa pdf's and on-line practice tests) to $400 (if you get suckered into a "complete package")
What did I miss, or misquote?

Joe
 
Unless you're selling a fixed price package (and I don't know anyone who does), why lie to the student? I know, it's "marketing". Personally, I think you can do a fine job "marketing" to the student by selling them the fact that you're gonna be truthful with them. For instance:

The facts on flight training costs!

Learning to fly costs money. How much money? Well, some of that depends on your abilities, some of it depends on where you do your training, and some of that depends on how you do your training. Here's the unvarnished truth.

A flight school charges you on an hourly basis for their service. That service is usually a flight instructor, and the rental of an airplane if you don't have one. Flight instructor rates are typically pretty close between schools in the same area, with the "senior" or "chief" flight instructor costing a little more. The rental cost for an airplane varies with the age of the airplane, the size of the airplane, and the equipment installed in the airplane. You can learn to fly in a 30 year old two-seat airplane, or you can learn to fly in a larger and newer airplane, which will of course cost more to rent.

So, now you understand the basics of what the hourly cost of learning to fly will be. The regulations prescribe a certain minimum number of hours of flight time and instruction, so they set the "minimum" cost. But the truth is that most students take significantly (75%) more time than the minimum specified by the regulations. So when you see a cost advertised, be aware that that is based on you being the greatest candidate on earth, and completing within the minimum time prescribed by the regulations. It's misleading at best.

How many hours will you take to learn to fly? Part of that depends on you. It's a fact that younger people can learn new skills more quickly than those with higher mileage, but older folks have advantages when it comes to judgement. The amount of time you can devote to learning makes a significant difference. If you can devote ten or more hours a week, you'll finish much faster than if you can devote one or two hours a month, because you'll have less time to forget things between lessons. Weather (which translates to location) can play a big role as well. If you fly in the southwest where it's almost always sunny, you'll have less chance of having a lesson cancelled because of bad weather.

After reading all of this, you should have a better understanding of the pained look on a teacher's face when you ask "How much will it cost to get my pilot's license". The only correct answer is "It will take as long as it takes, and we can work hard together to make the process as efficient as possible".

The biggest factor for success is the relationship the student has with his instructor. At ACME flight training, we strive to build a lifelong relationship based on honesty and respect. We hope that this candid talk about the cost of learning to fly is useful to you, and is representative of the honesty and respect we'll give you in the future.
 
I'm right with Joe Areeda on this one! I believe he has covered pretty much all of the costs necessary to get a certificate. Sure, a person can spend more, but this outline hits the high spots.

By presenting all of the costs, including those which many pilot centers leave unspoken until after the student is committed, I feel the student is better served.

I give them an estimate that the number of ground hrs will roughly equal number of flt hrs, provided the student really stays on top of the book work.

Lowballing the estimate to a student may get them in the door, but will end up as resentment of the organization in the long run. Many students would become long term renters and secondary students as a result of the honesty shown them by all of our staff.

Leaving a student with more $$$ in their pockets is always appreciated and provides them with some $$$ to further their flying!
 
I think Tim explained it nicely. The short answer is "$10,000, give or take a few thousand" and you'll pretty much cover it.
 
Jack Spectre said:
I think Tim explained it nicely. The short answer is "$10,000, give or take a few thousand" and you'll pretty much cover it.
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That's certainly a true statement. One of the FBO co-owners, however, is afraid of losing sales to other schools who advertise a "lower" price, though that price may be based on unrealistic criteria. I don't know of any way to win against that in the short term. In the long term, hopefully word will get out, but many potential students don't take the time to adequately investigate the true costs (or read the details.)

kevin7500 rather hit the problem on the head, when he said that he thought a 20% variance was not very accurate. In my opinion, that's a pretty good estimate.

(Though why, given that he was within 1 hour of the FAA minimum, the variance was so high I cannot answer. I admit that sounds a little "off.")

I don't know that a given school (or instructor, an even more extreme example) can provide meaningful "statistics", given the small sample size. And I don't know how, outside of filing an FOIA request, to get the average number of hours a student had on their application when they went for a successful private ASEL checkride. That would definitely be an interesting statistic to track.
 
Grant,

I hope you can convince the FBO partner to take a longer term view. YES, you may lose a small number of primary students if all they shop on is cost. However, I'd bet that the majority of those students either:

Drop out of training when they run out of money
Complete their training with some resentment against the school that "lied" to them.

Neither one is a prospect for retention and future billing, are they?
 
gprellwitz said:
One of the FBO co-owners, however, is afraid of losing sales to other schools who advertise a "lower" price, though that price may be based on unrealistic criteria. I don't know of any way to win against that in the short term.
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Try to talk to the co-owner about the self-damage that comes from the "lower price" advertising. Inevitably, students will become frustrated and dissatisfied when they are a few hours from checkride and have to fork over more money that is not in the budget. It creates another whole level of frustration and liability.

The best way to win against the "other lower price" is to educate when you can. Tell every potential student the facts about pricing and all the unlisted items in the advertised low price. That fact alone will influence a student's decision about another school.
 
nosehair said:
Try to talk to the co-owner about the self-damage that comes from the "lower price" advertising. Inevitably, students will become frustrated and dissatisfied when they are a few hours from checkride and have to fork over more money that is not in the budget. It creates another whole level of frustration and liability.

The best way to win against the "other lower price" is to educate when you can. Tell every potential student the facts about pricing and all the unlisted items in the advertised low price. That fact alone will influence a student's decision about another school.
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They do tell the student when they talk to them face-to-face. Their concern, and I think it has some justification, is that potential students doing the up-front work will find two or three FBOs in the area and compare them based on the price that they see on their website, before we have a chance to educate them in person. An FBO that doesn't quote a price will likely be out of the running, because potential students are going to think to themselves "what are they hiding?" I'm thinking that the best way to do it might be to quote the FAA minimum times, and have an article, maybe even based on some of the stuff in this thread, that describes how the total cost varies.
 
To be fair to my FBO, their price list showed the minimum number of hours required by the FAA and multiplied that by rental / instructor rates. When I went in to talk to them in person, they were very up front about saying "hardly anyone gets their ticket in 35 hours, it will almost certainly be more than that". Of course I showed the minimum requirements price to my wife...
 
I've seen it advertised as "The FAA requires 40hrs, so it breaks down like this...", but I've heard over the phone it described as "well, realisitically it'll run about $xxx". Personally, I'd like to see it presented as "The FAA requires 40hrs, the national average is xx (65-70 hrs, I think - but I can't remember where I hear that, maybe from a Cessna Training Center rep). At our rental rates and instructor rates, that would be about $xxx, then add fees, headsets, supplies and expect it to be around $xxx." That may be too much information, especially if the FBO on the other side of the field uses a low-ball ad.
 
It's impossible to blanketly market "accurately", because every student is different.

Here's how we've done it for 3 years -- let them choose their own adventure. It seems to work out really well. When we first meet someone, we ask them those questions and explain, when we give a quote, how their own experience is likely to stack up to the minimum, the school average, and the national average.

http://www.flycorona.com/package2.asp

...is blanketly a word? :D

$0.02
 
gprellwitz said:
kevin7500 rather hit the problem on the head, when he said that he thought a 20% variance was not very accurate. In my opinion, that's a pretty good estimate.

(Though why, given that he was within 1 hour of the FAA minimum, the variance was so high I cannot answer. I admit that sounds a little "off.")
Click to expand...

The biggest difference causing the cost difference was between FAA required dual instruction time and the amount of time my CFI actually spent with me in the plane. I was right at minimum for solo/cross country time. The other difference was incidental expenses...I bought a quality headset and some "optional" reading materials to assist in my education.

BTW, I have an excellent instructor who let me make mistakes, discuss them and wanted me to suggest the method of correction. His method worked really well with me.
 
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I'm definitely in the "I have troublewalking without bumping into things...." category.
 
I give our students a handout on the intro ride with the " realistic price breakdown." I think it is very important to be honest about the time and cost. If some need to save money.then so be it. Id much rather have students who finish than run out of $$.
 
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Mike, that website that breaks it down with questions is fantastic.

And I like Tim's "answer", too.
 
When ever I was discussing training costs with a potential student, and the topic of another schools estimated price came up, I would ask them if the estimate given included, x, y, and z... Almost every time, they did not.

Therefore, the student's education begins before they even commit to a particular school or curriculum. When a student has several options to choose from, as to how they wish to pursue their training, only then can a ballpark figure be arrived at.

But honest full disclosure of all aspects of the costs is paramount to developing a long term customer for both the CFI and the pilot training center.
 
Hmmm...

If a person's smart enough to learn to fly, shouldn't they be able to do basic addition and multiplication?

I never asked for a "Package price" -- I knew that if I spent 40 hours flying the airplane at $75/ wet, it would be cheaper than 100 hours at the same rate.

Provide the hourly rate, the minimum and the avergae times to completion, and let the customer decide.
 
dmccormack said:
If a person's smart enough to learn to fly, shouldn't they be able to do basic addition and multiplication?
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I didn't compare flight schools for cost. I inquired to the one that I used to verify that I had sufficient funds available. I am not sure about the math portion though. Their hourly for the plane was between $98 & $115 depending on single hour or block purchases. Club rate is $72 but there is an initial buy in. Instructor is $40 or $32 with the club. The club has a $50 per month maintenance fee. There is a $17 per hour fuel surcharge. Gets a bit confusing.:rolleyes: But, I only have a Calculus III university education.
 
kevin7500 said:
I didn't compare flight schools for cost. I inquired to the one that I used to verify that I had sufficient funds available. I am not sure about the math portion though. Their hourly for the plane was between $98 & $115 depending on single hour or block purchases. Club rate is $72 but there is an initial buy in. Instructor is $40 or $32 with the club. The club has a $50 per month maintenance fee. There is a $17 per hour fuel surcharge. Gets a bit confusing.:rolleyes: But, I only have a Calculus III university education.
Click to expand...


Good grief -- that's a lotta charges! I suppose it was simpler in 2002 -- How much for the airplane per hour? How much for the instructor?
 
Jack Spectre said:
I think Tim explained it nicely. The short answer is "$10,000, give or take a few thousand" and you'll pretty much cover it.
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That depends on what part of the country you live in, you can still get your PPL here in Missouri for around $6500.00, that includes check ride and all. You walk into an FBO around here and ask them if they can do it for a flat rate of $10K and they be more than happy to take your money. That's an extra $3500 in their pocket.
 
It's interesting -- we offered a "guaranteed" PP-ASEL in 06 and 07 which gave you 12 months unlimited flying for a flat-rate of $7,995 in a 172M (or $8,995 in the G1000)... this is in Los Angeles, mind you, land of $10k and $15k "40-hour" packages.

Not a single taker. We had a few guys bungle through it who would've saved a few bucks that way (not a lot)

Sadly, it's all about what informs them the most and intimidates them the least. For whatever reason, our "40 hours' prepaid" is still the most popular way to go.
 
It is important to understand what amount of ground time is factored into a quote.

Often with a "minimum" quote (FAA minimum flight times & dual instruction times), no one is counting the cost of the billed time spent with the instructor each lesson in the form of pre- and post-flight briefings and review. A "minimum" quote would be quite a bit off if this time weren't included, unless the instructor works for free when outside the airplane.

Another thing to ask regarding a quote is what if any ground school time is included. By that I mean not pre- and post-flight briefings talking about maneuvers, but the ground school lessons needed for the type of knowledge on the written test. Actual completion costs vary widely depending on whether a student does most of that on their own, takes a class, or does one-on-one lessons in a tutoring format. Quotes based on minimum flight hours might leave out this consideration.

Back to the original problem: There is no rule as to what needs to be included when a flight school gives you a price quote on earning a pilot certificate. It is up to the consumer to determine how the school arrived at that number. I think it is important for flight school representatives to clearly explain what is included in a quote, and I do think that customers value honesty. As mentioned in previous posts, there are a lot of factors that determine total "package price" -- and explaining this to someone is one of the most challenging marketing aspects of my job when dealing with people who want things in black-and-white.
 
skyflyer8 said:
It is important to understand what amount of ground time is factored into a quote.

Often with a "minimum" quote (FAA minimum flight times & dual instruction times), no one is counting the cost of the billed time spent with the instructor each lesson in the form of pre- and post-flight briefings and review. A "minimum" quote would be quite a bit off if this time weren't included, unless the instructor works for free when outside the airplane.
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Good point -- that little detail was not explained to me when I started -- made for an embarrassing confrontation early on in the training until I understood what was going on.

Now, I make abundantly clear that early in the training the ground time will be a function of the air time -- 1 hour air, probably at least 30 minutes ground.

As we progress, there will be less ground training unless it's required or requested.
 
PRIVATE PILOT RATING
The Private Pilot Program is designed for the student to fly 20 dual flight hours of instruction, 20 solo flight hours. The national average is between 55 to 65 hours for completion of this course. This will increase your training costs.
Additional Costs:
FAA Medical....................$85.00
FAA Written Exam............$90.00
FAA Practical Exam.........$350.00
Books, Charts, Fuel Testers, Checklists, Kneeboard, Headset
Estimated Costs.................$400.00

20 Flight Hours in Cessna 172 $2,080.00
20 Dual Instruction Hours$ 1,000.00
20 Solo Hours in Cessna 172$ 2,080.00
Flight Training Investment for Private Pilot Rating$5,160.00

Note the comments about National Avg 55-65 hours, we do get 40-45 hrs students too.
 
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