Flight simulator vs Real world?

[MAKG1]

"for serious pilots, it's not a game"

Ok I'm not the author of those words, I borrowed them

At least two major desktop sim producers assert that, as well as a big hunk of the user community, but that doesn't make it true.

 

[redtail]

At least two major desktop sim producers assert that, as well as a big hunk of the user community, but that doesn't make it true.

Doesn't make it false either.

I was just quoting the two CFIs that wrote the book. For me it's been both and not ashamed to admit that. When I got my first copy of MSFS when I was 16, it was nothing but entertainment. Flying around Meigs Field and learning what a traffic pattern was, was amazing to me, a kid that wanted to fly from birth but had no hope of ever being able to afford it. But for the most part, it was just a game.

However, shortly after discovering what a VOR and NDB was, my interest skyrocketed and I realized that I needed to start getting more out of this gem than just entertainment. That's when I discovered that real flight instructors were writing books on the subject, so I bought some. One of my first books was, The MS Flight Simulator handbook.

Another book I bought was, 'Learning to fly with Flight Simulator' by John Rafferty. http://www.flightsimbooks.com/learning/
(spent a lot of sim hours out on Long Island with this book, never imagined I'd live there one day)

And several others. YMMV, that's why I said before...I can only speak for myself

 

[Dead Stick]

For primary instruction, that may be true.

No, it's true across the board. Period. Over the past 30 years I've logged 600+ hours in top of the line Level D sims for Boeings, Gulfstreams, Lears and Falcons and as good as they are, they're not 100%, close but not 100%. The airplane is more realistic. Now as far as training goes, the airplane comes in a distant second to good sim. I am not a fan of using flight simulation games for anything. Under tightly controlled and limited circumstances they have their place, but it's all to easy to misuse them. All in all, most students would be better off without them.

 

[Fearless Tower]

No, it's true across the board. Period.

Did you actually read his comment before you discounted it?

I started to dismiss it, but after reading what he wrote after the part you quoted, he actually has a very valid point.

The one thing the real airplane doesn't do well is simulate a pitot/vacuum system failure.

If you ever have a real pitot or vacuum system failure it will not develop like it does when the CFII covers up the 'failed' instrument(s).

 

[FloridaPilot]

What are your experiences with flight simulation versus the real thing (other than the obvious)? In another thread someone said that bad habits can be developed. What are they and how can you avoid them?

I think it varies,

My experience was I kept looking at the instruments instead of looking outside and the CFI I went up with kept saying look outside. When I go for my IFR then the CFI is going to say look at the instruments.

Also in FSX the engine sounds exactly the same throughout, the engine sounds different in a real airplane.

I play FSX with the Saitek rudder pedals, yoke and throttle.

Which is your favorite sim FSX or Xplane10

In my experiences FSX gets buggy sometimes, (Fuel gauge doesn't go down, yoke loses calibration and you can't recalibrate...installed all of the service packs and it didn't help. I have to re-install every six months or so of continuous use).

 

[FloridaPilot]

The biggest (and this bit me in my training for a while) is it trains you to look at the panel and not look out the window nor to the sides. My instructor threatened to cover the panel with a towel a couple of times. I'd be looking for heading, altitude, AI for bank angle, etc. I should have been looking out the window at the horizon and looking around for traffic.

The most important skills for VFR flying are airplane feel (sloppy controls=slow airspeed=beware!, for example) and out the window references for attitude. Home grade toy simulators train you to ignore both of those things without you even being aware of it until you've flown a real airplane enough to develop them.

Can you use MSFS to learn how a DG works? Yes. VOR concept, sure. (But probably with some help, frankly. VOR to/from and radials is not intuitively obvious, to me at least.) Will you limit yourself to that without input of somebody who knows about the out the window and feel? How would you know to?

John

 

[brianwrites]

My flight lessons are in 172. I use X-Plane to fly a 172 at home. First lesson, I almost taxied off the runway and couldn't stay in a steep turn for more than five seconds.

Came home to work on the sim (has a yoke and pedals) and flew for five hours. Went to my next lesson and my CFI was floored at the progress I'd made. 1 hour lesson turned into 1.5 lesson because of the progress.

However, I watch ALOT of youtube videos and study ALOT. That helps tremendously. I even simulate preflight, run-up and all check lists on my sim. A buddy who's a 707 pilot said a good sim will save you time and money. I believe him and it has.

I've also made it a point to lower the panel as far as possible to keep my head outside the cockpit.

Now, if I could just get past a real world stalls...

Hope this helps.

 

[jsstevens]

My flight lessons are in 172. I use X-Plane to fly a 172 at home. First lesson, I almost taxied off the runway and couldn't stay in a steep turn for more than five seconds.

Came home to work on the sim (has a yoke and pedals) and flew for five hours. Went to my next lesson and my CFI was floored at the progress I'd made. 1 hour lesson turned into 1.5 lesson because of the progress.

However, I watch ALOT of youtube videos and study ALOT. That helps tremendously. I even simulate preflight, run-up and all check lists on my sim. A buddy who's a 707 pilot said a good sim will save you time and money. I believe him and it has.

I've also made it a point to lower the panel as far as possible to keep my head outside the cockpit.

Now, if I could just get past a real world stalls...

Hope this helps.

And you are using a sim in conjunction with an instructor and real flight training. Not trying to "teach yourself" before real training. That works fine.

It's the using one without any instructor input that I think burns people. And, while I've never read the books by flight instructors on how to use these flight sims, that I suspect is what I would call instructor input.

John

 

[petrolero]

For procedures I think they can be OK except I think sims are way harder to fly well compared to real aircraft. Flying a sim well means mastering a joystick or sim yoke, etc. that takes practice but that doesn't translate to the same movements in a plane.

I flew some of my IR training in a sim (older one) and I found my 182 1000% easier. Perhaps other sims would have been better. The trim was excessively fast on that sim. The controls were not natural feeling. That is an "n of 1" so take with a grain of salt.

I like the idea of using sims for procedures. I guess the newer FSX allows comms practice somehow which is really cool. Sim without comm is not realistic.