Flight Plans and Freedom of Information Act

NoHeat

NoHeat

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Does anybody know whether pilot names and phone numbers entered on flight plans are in the public domain?

I'm asking because there was a Wall Street Journal article a couple of days ago that said: "Via a Freedom of Information Act request, the Journal acquired records of every private aircraft flight recorded in the FAA's air-traffic management system for the four years from 2007 through 2010"

The WSJ article centered on private jets and their frivolous use, and not on small planes, but it made me wonder whether all the details of flight plans are available to a FOI request or just the tail numbers, times and places.
 
Why should the WSJ care about the frivolous use of PRIVATE aircraft?
No different than large RV or mega million dollar yachts.

I believe under the FOI, the personal information will be blocked. That information could only be obtained under court order for a criminal activity investigation.

But I am not a lawyer.
 
NoHeat said:
Does anybody know whether pilot names and phone numbers entered on flight plans are in the public domain?

I'm asking because there was a Wall Street Journal article a couple of days ago that said: "Via a Freedom of Information Act request, the Journal acquired records of every private aircraft flight recorded in the FAA's air-traffic management system for the four years from 2007 through 2010"

The WSJ article centered on private jets and their frivolous use, and not on small planes, but it made me wonder whether all the details of flight plans are available to a FOI request or just the tail numbers, times and places.
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They still fly the helicopter between Princeton (private pad) and NYC?
 
I just put Mari's name on all my flight plans. Keeps it simple and clean re phone calls to the tower and all that crap.
 
The problem is one of governance. Many private jet users apply to keep their flight records private; this is especially true of large corporations.

Aircraft expenses are not usually disclosed in SEC filings, aside from that usage which is considered "personal" and therefore a part of a named executive's compensation package.

Using this tool, an intrepid analyst can get an idea of the scale of corporate aircraft usage amongst executives, and for what purpose. Lots of business meetings in the Turks and Caicos for a steel company would probably lead an analyst to question management's reticence to further reduce business overhead costs.

I would also note that the WSJ digs at a few prominent "green" industrialists/billionaires, who extensively use the more "carbon rich" form of travel that is private aviation.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
wabower said:
I just put Mari's name on all my flight plans. Keeps it simple and clean re phone calls to the tower and all that crap.
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:rofl:

Do you make your voice sound high when you call the tower? :D
 
astanley said:
Using this tool, an intrepid analyst can get an idea of the scale of corporate aircraft usage amongst executives, and for what purpose. Lots of business meetings in the Turks and Caicos for a steel company would probably lead an analyst to question management's reticence to further reduce business overhead costs.
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I see that on another forum that people are questioning why the WSJ is publishing something like this, because they are normally seen as friendly to business, as opposed to USA Today. However, I think that this is the type of thing that might interest investors, who also tend to read the WSJ. A number of years ago we flew someone who was in the process of taking his company public. He would come up and ask us questions about different types of airplanes. I asked if he was planning to buy one and he said that eventually he would like to do that but that Wall Street does not look favorably on companies that go public then immediately go out and purchase a business jet. This was in the mid 2000s and before they became symbols of excess. I imagine that investors would look more unfavorably at that now, especially if they could tell that they were used extensively for trips which could be seen as frivolous. For example, it might be seen as better if your destinations are business locations rather than resort areas.

It's irrelevant to me, though, because I think I've only flown one aircraft with a blocked number, and that was only a few times.
 
I don't have to fake the voice thing, it always goes up a couple of octaves when I think I may be in trouble.

Fortunately, I have Dave and Spike's tail numbers memorized, so I use them from time to time as well.

Everskyward said:
:rofl:

Do you make your voice sound high when you call the tower? :D
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Putting aside the question of personal use of aircraft, exposing the travel patterns can give a clue to potential M&A, divestiture, or new product plans. While there are other ways to obfuscate those meetings, open travel records of corp. execs can potentially lead to conclusions that will impact stock price. Or impact product release strategies.

To those who think this is a good thing, be careful what you wish for....
 
wsuffa said:
Putting aside the question of personal use of aircraft, exposing the travel patterns can give a clue to potential M&A, divestiture, or new product plans. While there are other ways to obfuscate those meetings, open travel records of corp. execs can potentially lead to conclusions that will impact stock price. Or impact product release strategies.

To those who think this is a good thing, be careful what you wish for....
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While I can see your point, even if the routings were not available there would still be plenty of ways to tell where an airplane was going if you were curious enough, LiveATC for example. In addition they all have unique alphanumeric characters that are pretty big. It's also been a curiosity to me that many (most?) of these airplanes have what amount to vanity plates. You can often relate the last two letters to the company name in some way.

Here's one that's even easier.

1862429.jpg


Wonder who that belongs to? You would paint an airplane like that, why? Certainly not to be sneaking around in it.
 
wabower said:
I don't have to fake the voice thing, it always goes up a couple of octaves when I think I may be in trouble.

Fortunately, I have Dave and Spike's tail numbers memorized, so I use them from time to time as well.
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Ahhh, I had been wondering why folks kept asking why I was flying low around Mena <g>. Now I get it.

Best,

Dave
 
Everskyward said:
While I can see your point, even if the routings were not available there would still be plenty of ways to tell where an airplane was going if you were curious enough, LiveATC for example. In addition they all have unique alphanumeric characters that are pretty big. It's also been a curiosity to me that many (most?) of these airplanes have what amount to vanity plates. You can often relate the last two letters to the company name in some way.
Click to expand...

Those other methods often require substanially more work in order to engage in competitive intelligence. It's much easier for a competitor to suck a data feed with all the details right there.

I suspect that if the data is no longer protected upon request that there will be a huge business in justifying hiding the data for personal security reasons. That's already done to justify personal use of aircraft & avoid imputed income under the tax code, I can see it happening here.

One company I worked for did not hide their data until a competitor came up to the CFO one day and asked him whether we were doing a deal with a company after the corporate jet had flown to a rather unusual city.... after that, a request went in to hide the data.

Here's one that's even easier.

Wonder who that belongs to? You would paint an airplane like that, why? Certainly not to be sneaking around in it.
Click to expand...

I can certainly think of other ways to paint it given their slogan ("Just do it"). But this is a family board, certain members and Spin Zone excluded. :D
 
wsuffa said:
One company I worked for did not hide their data until a competitor came up to the CFO one day and asked him whether we were doing a deal with a company after the corporate jet had flown to a rather unusual city.... after that, a request went in to hide the data.
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I guess that's one advantage to also having your airplane on a charter certificate. "Oh no, that wasn't us!"
 
wsuffa said:
...

One company I worked for did not hide their data until a competitor came up to the CFO one day and asked him whether we were doing a deal with a company after the corporate jet had flown to a rather unusual city.... after that, a request went in to hide the data.
...
Click to expand...

Sounds like one more reason to use teleconferencing instead of travel besides the mere mortals who like to avoid the TSA madness.
 
mikea said:
Sounds like one more reason to use teleconferencing instead of travel besides the mere mortals who like to avoid the TSA madness.
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Teleconferencing does not work well for negotiations.
 
Everskyward said:
Wonder who that belongs to? You would paint an airplane like that, why? Certainly not to be sneaking around in it.
Click to expand...

The term "Sociopathic Egotist" comes to mind, which adequately describes a large percentage of Executives, many of whom behind closed doors will brag of being exactly that.
 
I found it telling, though not surprising, that these paragraphs were buried pretty deep:
Much of the travel reflected in the FAA data is far less exotic than eclipse-trips to Tahiti. The four jets in the U.S. that recorded the largest number of flights over the four-year period, for example, are all owned by Menard Inc., a privately-held chain of home-improvement stores based in Eau Claire, Wisc. The planes often make a half-dozen flights a day, traveling to locations such as Marshall, Minn., Sioux Falls, S.D., and Manhattan, Kan.

A Menard spokesman said the jets are an efficient way for employees to conduct on-site visits and training at widely-scattered stores.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
Fortunately, I have Dave and Spike's tail numbers memorized, so I use them from time to time as well.
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And if the BARR thing goes away, that's what will happen.

Hell, just look at N12345 (a C172 in the reg database) now. On Thursday it was shooting approaches in California, on Friday it was in both Mississippi and Georgia. Oh, and in the last four months it's been a C172, C182, Learjet, PA28, C210, Bonanza, Cherokee Six, Baron, 152, Navajo, SR22, JetRanger, Citation X, and a King Air.

That's one helluvan airplane!
 
wabower said:
Fortunately, I have Dave and Spike's tail numbers memorized, so I use them from time to time as well.
Click to expand...

I should try that. I just use Mari's tail number. Make it easier to believe since it's another twin Cessna. It worked so well, that I was cleared to FL280 yesterday in the 310. But I use Tristan's name on flight plans, since the hair matches more closely.
 
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