Flight of two into class C

Discussion in 'Change to my Frequency...' started by Huckster79, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Pattern Altitude

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    i have to take my clubs 172 back to GRR tomorrow, a friend is going to follow me in his 172 to bring me home after we drop my club plane off... when I call approach can I call as a flight of two? If so how would that be worded?
     
  2. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    Just use your normal call sign and tell them that you're a flight of two. Simple as that.
     
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  3. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Pattern Altitude

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    Will they likely have us both squawk same code?
     
  4. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

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    Yes just call up as normal "XXX approach N1234 flight of two 15 miles to SW with information Bravo full stop landing"
     
  5. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Both squawking the same code will create problems for ATC to tag up the flight. Depending on the software, the system could get confused on which aircraft to tag to. Even if they both tag, you’ll have annoying overlap and erroneous conflict alerts.

    They should have lead squawk, wingman will squawk standby. Unless you’re ridiculously far away (non standard sep) from lead then they’ll give you a separate code.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  6. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    What ^he^ said. Sorry I had to go to bed.
     
  7. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Go to bed? It’s like 8 am out there! :)
     
  8. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    I didn't look at the time of the posts, therefore assumed it was last night...coffee please. :(
     
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  9. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Pattern Altitude

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    That makes sense!
     
  10. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If he's just going to follow, and you are not going to be flying in formation, please don't do the 'flight' thing. It's a pain in the azz for controllers. Just be yourselves.
     
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  11. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    :yeahthat:

    Also, before attempting a formation flight, both pilots _should_ have formation flight training. Best to make it two independent flights to the same destination. -Skip
     
  12. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yep. I've flight-of-two'd even out of IAD (even after 9/11). The flight I was escorting had no electrical system.
     
  13. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Pattern Altitude

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    Will do- we thought it wud be easier for em
     
  14. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Having done this, in GRR's service area no less, we were not tight formation - I was 1/4 to 1/2 mile away - they didn't have me turn off my transponder or have me put it on standby.
     
  15. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    2-1-13

    1. For a standard formation only the aircraft acting as the lead will squawk an ATC assigned beacon code. Ensure all other aircraft squawk standby.
     
  16. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    How tight is a standard formation before you guys want the transponder on standby? I asked the controller if he wanted my transponder there, and he said I could/should leave it on.
     
  17. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    1 mile laterally. Not saying GRR did anything wrong. It’s their airspace, they can do what they want. Just giving the OP the reference (.65) from my earlier reply.

    Even over a mile ATC can have dash / chalk 2, 3, etc squawk standby if operationally advantageous. Basically a high code area and targets are overlapping / ring around. At my old facility though, we were required to have trail in a non standard squawk non discrete.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  18. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    So like everything else in aviation...


    "it depends" :D
     
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  19. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'd just have him takeoff a bit after you and be two flights of one rather than one flight of two.
     
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  20. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    As Archie Bell said, "Do the tighten-up..."

     
  21. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Just file IFR an they’ll know you’re a flight of two by reading the strip. ;)

     
  22. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Pattern Altitude

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    That’s what we did... was just simpler...
     
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  23. Dean V

    Dean V Pre-takeoff checklist

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    How do you comply when both aircraft have ADS-B?
     
  24. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Depends on the type transponder. Some have standby. If no standby, then turn it off. If you can’t turn it off, ATC will deal with it.
     
  25. Dean V

    Dean V Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Could you give an example of ADS-B transponders that have a standby or off mode?
     
  26. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Status Appareo, Garmin GTX335 / 345. They have Standby / OFF buttons. Others at least have an off feature. If still broadcasting with standby, then most likely ATC will tell you to turn it off.
     
  27. Dave S.

    Dave S. Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Only because most pilots don’t have any idea how to do a flight. If you are going to be a flight the stay together throughout the entire flight, including touchdown. A flight will be treated as one unit for separation from other aircraft. The lead should squawk and the wing on standby. The distance between the two will determine if the controller treats you as a standard or non-standard formation which determines how much separation he will use between the flight and other traffic. What happens usually is two guys call thems selves a flight and their miles apart or the fly in together sloppily and when the enter the pattern they decide to break up and fly independent patterns. THATS a hassle. Stay tight or inform ATC that you intend to break up.

    Tex