Fitting LED conspicuity lights?

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peter-h

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peter-h
What is the process for doing this?

I fly a TB20GT. Towards the end of production in 2003, Socata were selling them with forward-facing wingtip lights like this.

These wingtip lights were obviously on the Type Certificate...

What is the process for installing LED lamps in these? One could easily arrange for the current draw to be no higher, and they would be bright enough to work as taxi lights (something which is rubbish on the TB20 due to the taxi+landing light cluster being only on the LH wing; you can't turn right onto a taxiway at night).

But none of the lamps on the market are AFAIK PMAd or TSOd.

What is the process for fitting such parts?

AIUI, without the co-operation of the manufacturer (a situation which is more or less assured) it is a case of getting a DER to generate the approved data - for either a Minor or Major alteration. But DERs I've come across don't like work below $10,000 per job :)
 
Question is whether the lights were engineered and added to the TC by Socata, or if they were installed at the factory under an STC. If you can find an airplane with them installed you might be able to locate the STC if there is one.
 
Check with Whelen. They have a number of STC's LED replacememt lamps & bulbs. If you can find a replacement with an STC for your aircraft then all you need is a filed 337 and not a field-approval 337. (same form)

For example, the Whelen PAR36 LED lamp has an STC (our favorite GE 4905 bulb). I did the installation, the A&P examined and approved my installation, wrote up the 337, filed it, gave me a copy.

Like he said - if he did the installation he'd have to bill me for an hour labor on top of the paperwork. This way, he laughed while I struggled to find the + wire on a 40 yr old airplane while forgetting how to use the volt meter.
 
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Sorry Tim I did not write clearly. There is no issue fitting those wingtips I posted a picture of. But they use ordinary low power lamps, which are no good as taxi lights.

I want to buy those wingtips (which is easy, though not cheap) and replace the lamps with LED lights, drawing the same current but much brighter.

It will also be necessary to cut away some of the fibreglass to accommodate the larger LED light.

I didn't realise Whelen had an STC. They won't have an STC for a Socata aircraft but an STC carries a lot of weight anyway as Approved Data.

I did the installation, the A&P examined and approved my installtion, wrote up the 337, filed it, gave me a copy.
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Presumably he mailed the 337 to Oklahoma? One can't just file a 337, AIUI. Also you need an IA to sign a 337, no?
 
peter-h said:
Presumably he mailed the 337 to Oklahoma? One can't just file a 337, AIUI. Also you need an IA to sign a 337, no?
Click to expand...

Murph's A&Ps are both IA. The filing it bit meant submitting it to the FAA.
 
peter-h said:
Sorry Tim I did not write clearly. There is no issue fitting those wingtips I posted a picture of. But they use ordinary low power lamps, which are no good as taxi lights.

I want to buy those wingtips (which is easy, though not cheap) and replace the lamps with LED lights, drawing the same current but much brighter.
Click to expand...

You'll find that the current draw is less, and definitely brighter.

It will also be necessary to cut away some of the fibreglass to accommodate the larger LED light.

I didn't realise Whelen had an STC. They won't have an STC for a Socata aircraft but an STC carries a lot of weight anyway as Approved Data.
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised the many STCs out there for LEDs. Whelen's the best place to start.
Presumably he mailed the 337 to Oklahoma? One can't just file a 337, AIUI. Also you need an IA to sign a 337, no?
Click to expand...
I don't know what he did ith the 3rd copy (1 to me, 1 for his files, and I guess the 3rd to OKC). This is what I pay them for, knowing what to do with the forms. But both guys at the shop are A&P/IA.
 
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Assuming I can find STCd or PMAd LED lamps suitable for use as taxi or "airborne conspicuity" lights (i.e. a wide beam), what would be the certification issues in modifying the fibreglass wingtips (in the pic I posted)?

One would need to convert what looks like a rectangular hole, perhaps 2" x 1", onto a circular (say 2" diameter) hole. The aerodynamic properties would not be affected because the whole lamp area is covered by the clear cover.

The standard LED lamps are too large diameter for this. Of the circular ones, I would need (at a guess; looking at the photo) about 2" diameter.
 
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What's the bulb number/id/description on the wingtip lights? If it's just a bulb replacement, shouldn't be much of an issue. For example, Whelen now makes an LED replacement bulb (just the bulb) for the red & green position lights. $32 and change, IIRC.
 
peter-h said:
What is the process for doing this?

I fly a TB20GT. Towards the end of production in 2003, Socata were selling them with forward-facing wingtip lights like this.

These wingtip lights were obviously on the Type Certificate...
Click to expand...

Where? I just went thru the entire TCDS and there's no reference to these lights at all. There is, however, a section titled "Equipment" that refers to the French DGAC-approved AFM or POH. Are the wingtip lights specifically referenced on the POH?

This seems like an after market and/or STC addition. Silly question, but have you gone thru all the documentation of the airplane? Be amazed what you can find. I've had the cherokee for more than 10 years and just found the yellow tag for the wing-leveler under the baggage deck.
 
I thought my UK residence was apparent from the website URL in my signature.

But I fly a US reg aircraft which is why I ask on a US pilot forum. US certification rules apply.
Where? I just went thru the entire TCDS and there's no reference to these lights at all.
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I assumed that any mod produced by an aircraft manufacturer was on their TC. But maybe not. maybe it was done as an STC. I know for sure however that Socata did sell the late model TB20s/21s in the USA, with those new wingtips.

I don't have these new wingtips (yet). They cost a few thousand $ :)
 
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peter-h said:
I assumed that any mod produced by an aircraft manufacturer was on their TC. But maybe not. maybe it was done as an STC. I know for sure however that Socata did sell the late model TB20s/21s in the USA, with those new wingtips.

I don't have these new wingtips (yet). They cost a few thousand $ :)
Click to expand...

If Socata is offering them on newer models, and they aren't on the TCDS (I've yet to see wing tips on a TCDS), then it's an STC. Talk to Socata and find out who they are getting the wingtips from, that company will have the STC.
 
I have asked but I am pretty sure it is an in-house job. They are an EASA 21 design company (roughly equivalent to a US DER), EASA 145, and an FAA 145 Repair Station, and they own the FAA and EASA TCs for the aircraft. They can do it all in house, produce the AFMS, etc.

As an aside, a new treaty has just been signed between the USA and Europe, on mutual certification acceptance.
 
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