First time student - Cirrus sr22

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Atx787

Filing Flight Plan
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Patrick
First time post. I know virtually nothing about general aviation, but am looking to begin as a student in January of 2015. I grew up going to air shows as a kid, bug have never been able to afford the prospect - now I'm able to commit the time and money. Please forgive the stupidity, but I have a few questions. I would sincerely appreciate any advice.

As I understand it - and based on what I've seen advertised here in Austin - most all flight schools train in a Cessna 172. Is it possible to begin on any other aircraft? My end game (again, based on limited understanding of all things general aviation) is a Cirrus sr22. My decision is based solely on the CAPS deployment system.

So perhaps it sounds incredibly dumb to come on here and express an interest in flying and then want to get in a plane with a parachute, but that's where I am. Please feel free to flame away -

Again, my basic question is: can I do all my training in a Cirrus sr22?

Thanks for any insight -
 
Atx787 said:
First time post. I know virtually nothing about general aviation, but am looking to begin as a student in January of 2015. I grew up going to air shows as a kid, bug have never been able to afford the prospect - now I'm able to commit the time and money. Please forgive the stupidity, but I have a few questions. I would sincerely appreciate any advice.

As I understand it - and based on what I've seen advertised here in Austin - most all flight schools train in a Cessna 172. Is it possible to begin on any other aircraft? My end game (again, based on limited understanding of all things general aviation) is a Cirrus sr22. My decision is based solely on the CAPS deployment system.

So perhaps it sounds incredibly dumb to come on here and express an interest in flying and then want to get in a plane with a parachute, but that's where I am. Please feel free to flame away -

Again, my basic question is: can I do all my training in a Cirrus sr22?

Thanks for any insight -
Click to expand...

You can, but unless you own the airplane it may not be advisable due to cost. You could potentially train in a Cirrus SR20, which is basically similar to the SR22, but again it would be more expensive than if you trained in a 172. Also, the Cirrus aircraft are faster and requires you to stay further ahead of the aircraft than you would in a 172. In the Chicago area, the difference between renting a 172 and Cirrus SR20 is about $85 per hour. If the average time to earn a PPL is 70 hours or so, that would translate to an additional $6,000 approximately in cost. An SR22 for training if you could find one would be more expensive. So if it were me, I would learn in the 172 or similar aircraft, and transition to the Cirrus when I have my PPL under my belt....but, I do know of folks who got their PPL in a Cirrus and did not have issues.

As you are in Austin, you may want to check out Redbird Skyport as a flight training school. I hear they are awesome, and they use simulators quite a bit in training, and charge a fixed price of $9,995 for the PPL. They are in San Marcos.

Here is their link:

http://redbirdskyport.com/flight-school/private-pilot-course/

And let me be the first to welcome you to POA!
 
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You can, but you'll be drinking out of even bigger firehose than normal.

If your goal is simply flying (vs XC travel) and you want a 'chute, why not find a school with a LSA (Light Sport Aircraft) like a Sportcruiser, CTSW, or Alpha trainer?

Forgiving, Beginner-friendly, MUCH lighter on the wallet, and they all still have whole-airframe chutes.
 
If you're afraid of crashing, train in a Cessna 152 and wear a pilot rig (parachute). Maybe take a few AFF lessons at your local DZ.

You can train in a SR22, just going to cost you WAY more and you're not goin to have anything more to show for it.
 
When you train in a popular trainer, the 172, you train in a plane that a LOT of other pilots have trained in and flown. Aviation is a brotherhood (and sisterhood), and you will be a member. If you share learning in a 172 you will have a lot of brothers!

Once you get your ticket, fly the Cirrus. The Cirrus is definitely not a common trainer. It COULD be done, but its kinda "out there".
 
Plenty of folks have learned to fly in a Cirrus. The SR-20 is the typical Cirrus trainer, mostly due to cost and insurance reasons. I'm sure if the OP has done his research he knows that buying a Cirrus ain't cheap, but you only live once.

For convience reasons, many Cirrus pilots train for their private at their local flight school, typically in 172s, and transition to the Cirrus after completing their training. Cirrus aircraft tend to be less common on the rental line than the venerable Cessnas and Pipers.
 
Isn't there an instructor on this board, based near Austin, that offers training in a tail dragger?

Completely opposite thought process from The Cirrus, but would be more fun, better piloting skills, and cheaper.
 
You want saftey, learn in a PA18 on tundras off a remote grass strip.

The smoke folks blow smoke up their arses in the name of "saftey"
 
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JoseCuervo said:
Isn't there an instructor on this board, based near Austin, that offers training in a tail dragger?

Completely opposite thought process from The Cirrus, but would be more fun, better piloting skills, and cheaper.
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Ryan I believe, haven't seen him on here in a while though.
 
What you want to do can easily be done. If you know you want a Cirrus SR 22, buy one. New or used, that's on you! But, while you are doing that, join COPA (Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association) and find a CFI that specializes in Cirrus. While it will cost more $$$ upfront, it will be cheaper in the long run! Don't listen to anyone that says you have to start in plane x or y! Aviation is a personal goal and accomplishment and their is no set way of doing it. The only set standards are what you have to train to do, how you train is on you and your CFI. Some fly once a week, I flew twice a day for a few weeks and got my ticket. Again, to each his own.
 
After reading around some more the consensus seems to be to get certified in a
Cessna 172 and then transition. Makes perfect sense to me. That's what I'll do.

Any recommendations here in Austin, Texas for flight school?

Thanks again everyone for your comments
 
jmp470 said:
What you want to do can easily be done. If you know you want a Cirrus SR 22, buy one. New or used, that's on you! But, while you are doing that, join COPA (Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association) and find a CFI that specializes in Cirrus. While it will cost more $$$ upfront, it will be cheaper in the long run! Don't listen to anyone that says you have to start in plane x or y! Aviation is a personal goal and accomplishment and their is no set way of doing it. The only set standards are what you have to train to do, how you train is on you and your CFI. Some fly once a week, I flew twice a day for a few weeks and got my ticket. Again, to each his own.
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Wasn't Cirrus (or another manufacturer?) offering free PPL training if you bought a new aircraft? I thought I remember seeing an ad in one of the magazines with that offer.

I guess it's not really free if you have to buy a $300K airplane :dunno:
 
Atx787 said:
After reading around some more the consensus seems to be to get certified in a
Cessna 172 and then transition. Makes perfect sense to me. That's what I'll do.

Any recommendations here in Austin, Texas for flight school?

Thanks again everyone for your comments
Click to expand...

Try Redbird Skyport in San Marcos. I posted the link earlier.
 
Atx787 said:
After reading around some more the consensus seems to be to get certified in a
Cessna 172 and then transition. Makes perfect sense to me. That's what I'll do.

Any recommendations here in Austin, Texas for flight school?

Thanks again everyone for your comments
Click to expand...
You said your end game is an SR22 which I assume that means you are going to purchase one? If that's the case, just do your training in a Cirrus since you plan on buying one.
 
ColoPilot said:
Wasn't Cirrus (or another manufacturer?) offering free PPL training if you bought a new aircraft? I thought I remember seeing an ad in one of the magazines with that offer.

I guess it's not really free if you have to buy a $300K airplane :dunno:
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They were (PP for nonpilots and IRA for Private Pilots), but I don't know if that offer still stands. And I think a new SR22 is about double that price these days.

In any event, it is certainly possible to do ab initio training in an SR22, just longer and more expensive. No need to "drink from a fire hose", just take your time and be patient. And if that is the plane you want to own and fly in the long run, then learning in one makes sense. The only advice I might give is to find a school using SR20's (there are quite a few which do) and do enough training in that so you're sure you'll continue to completion before buying that 22. Transitioning from a 20 to a 22 with the same avionics is pretty quick and easy.
 
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As previously stated, your training would most likely be done in SR20. Any training program you find with Cirrus available will be in SR20. Only way to train in SR22 is for you to own it and then insurance would liekly be an issue.

As a current student and one that started my training in SR20, I have recently changed to finish my training at a school in a Piper. Owning a Cirrus is still a possibility in the future for me but will go through transition training at that time if that happens. I expect the transition training to be minimal since already pretty familiar with the plane.

Reason for my change -- Cirrus doesn't exactly fit my "most of the time" mission (5 kids) although I certainly like the platform and CAPS. Since a Cirrus is not 100% lock for me I thought better to finish training in a platform that will most likely be one I own and leave the Cirrus as backup.

And then there is the cost. I am in Houston area so rates are likely simialr to Austin. Cirrus SR20 is $250/hr plus fuel (about $50 per lesson) plus $74/hr for instructor. For average one hour flight lesson I am paying over $400. Alternatively, Piper is $109/hr incuding fuel and $42/hr for instructor. I will let you do the math for comparison.

And if ownership is not immediate, the rental for SR22 when ready is $350/hr plus fuel.

Good luck whichever route you go.
 
The route I took (taking):
- got my Private with a 6-Pack Steam Gauge C172
- started my instrument training in a G1000 C172

Since I can't make up my mind as to which plane I want to own (Diamond DA40 or SR20/22), this is the most effective method for me.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
kfvintx said:
Any training program you find with Cirrus available will be in SR20. Only way to train in SR22 is for you to own it and then insurance would liekly be an issue.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's entirely true. I'm doing some investigating prior to moving back to Colorado next year, and trying to decide what I'd like to learn in, and where, and I found that the Cirrus Training Centers seem to train in SR22s, at least at Independence Aviation at Centennial (KAPA). I haven't called them, just going by what they have on their website.

I know for myself personally, if I bought a single-engine plane down the road, it probably would be an SR22 (although what I really want is a twin, but that's a topic for another day) and that's what I would elect to train in myself, even though it's more expensive. And from what little research I've done, there are places that seem to offer training in SR22s.
 
There are some schools I've seen that rent SR22s, but generally they are not used for primary training. Insurance generally demands high minimums of pilots renting these airplanes, so student solo's are often off the table or require a lot of time in type. Because there isn't a big training demand for SR22s most places aren't willing to pay more for insurance to lower those minimums.

If you own an SR22, other options open up. But I'd suggest renting 172s, PA28s, or an SR20 if you feel more comfortable with one. Wait to buy until you have some training.
 
Most schools want you to already have PPL before training in a Cirrus SR22 unless you buy one at least here on the west coast. I'd train in a less expensive 172 or Piper Warrior then get IR in a Cirrus.
 
Atx787 said:
First time post. I know virtually nothing about general aviation, but am looking to begin as a student in January of 2015. I grew up going to air shows as a kid, bug have never been able to afford the prospect - now I'm able to commit the time and money. Please forgive the stupidity, but I have a few questions. I would sincerely appreciate any advice.

As I understand it - and based on what I've seen advertised here in Austin - most all flight schools train in a Cessna 172. Is it possible to begin on any other aircraft? My end game (again, based on limited understanding of all things general aviation) is a Cirrus sr22. My decision is based solely on the CAPS deployment system.

So perhaps it sounds incredibly dumb to come on here and express an interest in flying and then want to get in a plane with a parachute, but that's where I am. Please feel free to flame away -

Again, my basic question is: can I do all my training in a Cirrus sr22?

Thanks for any insight -
Click to expand...

Yes, you can also train in the SR-20 and get the same systems at a lower cost, however if you are looking at a near term purchase of an SR-22 anyway, then there is no reason not to train in it; in fact it would probably work in your favor insurance wise on the 3 year totals to train in it from as early as possible.
 
kfvintx said:
As previously stated, your training would most likely be done in SR20. Any training program you find with Cirrus available will be in SR20. Only way to train in SR22 is for you to own it and then insurance would liekly be an issue.

As a current student and one that started my training in SR20, I have recently changed to finish my training at a school in a Piper. Owning a Cirrus is still a possibility in the future for me but will go through transition training at that time if that happens. I expect the transition training to be minimal since already pretty familiar with the plane.

Reason for my change -- Cirrus doesn't exactly fit my "most of the time" mission (5 kids) although I certainly like the platform and CAPS. Since a Cirrus is not 100% lock for me I thought better to finish training in a platform that will most likely be one I own and leave the Cirrus as backup.

And then there is the cost. I am in Houston area so rates are likely simialr to Austin. Cirrus SR20 is $250/hr plus fuel (about $50 per lesson) plus $74/hr for instructor. For average one hour flight lesson I am paying over $400. Alternatively, Piper is $109/hr incuding fuel and $42/hr for instructor. I will let you do the math for comparison.

And if ownership is not immediate, the rental for SR22 when ready is $350/hr plus fuel.

Good luck whichever route you go.
Click to expand...

You need to be looking at a Chieftain.:lol:;)
 
Contact Planesmart.com . I think they have a presence in Austin. They deal in fractional ownership of Cirrus aircraft, and may be able to help you.
 
I took over a student with his own SR22 that was frustrated by his lack of progress with another instructor.

I got him solo'd in fairly short order, and successfully got him through his Private and Instrument rides.

So it CAN be done. And not that big a deal.

That said, I think a student could benefit from learning on a more basic plane first - there's the potential for a lot of distractions from basic airmanship in a Cirrus.

But like I said, it can be done - with the proper emphasis on basics.
 
If the parachute is the driving issue, google BRS and you'll see you can buy systems for 172s and 182s as well. A 182 with a parachute might be a much more affordable option.

(I have no experience with BRS - just throwing it out there to make sure the OP is aware of this option. I think it's "only" something like $20,000 plus labor...)
 
Derek Zeanah said:
If the parachute is the driving issue, google BRS and you'll see you can buy systems for 172s and 182s as well. A 182 with a parachute might be a much more affordable option.
Click to expand...
Derek is correct. However, the BRS for the 172/182 takes up most of the baggage compartment and adds a lot of weight, so factor that into your planning if you go that route.
 
Derek Zeanah said:
If the parachute is the driving issue, google BRS and you'll see you can buy systems for 172s and 182s as well. A 182 with a parachute might be a much more affordable option.

(I have no experience with BRS - just throwing it out there to make sure the OP is aware of this option. I think it's "only" something like $20,000 plus labor...)
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I don't disagree with you, but that's not how "the market" thinks. That makes perfect sense when you think "what benefit do I get for my money?" However sad as it is, the market thinks, "Where does this purchase advance my resale position? It will cost half the value of my aircraft, will it improve the resale value $30,000 as well?" It's much the same quandary for refitting modern panels in old airframes. The information and situational awareness have an operational value that is not calculable into resale numbers, yet so many people make their final decisions on resale value.
 
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Atx787 said:
First time post. I know virtually nothing about general aviation, but am looking to begin as a student in January of 2015. I grew up going to air shows as a kid, bug have never been able to afford the prospect - now I'm able to commit the time and money. Please forgive the stupidity, but I have a few questions. I would sincerely appreciate any advice.

As I understand it - and based on what I've seen advertised here in Austin - most all flight schools train in a Cessna 172. Is it possible to begin on any other aircraft? My end game (again, based on limited understanding of all things general aviation) is a Cirrus sr22. My decision is based solely on the CAPS deployment system.

So perhaps it sounds incredibly dumb to come on here and express an interest in flying and then want to get in a plane with a parachute, but that's where I am. Please feel free to flame away -

Again, my basic question is: can I do all my training in a Cirrus sr22?

Thanks for any insight -
Click to expand...

No need to flame, or listen to all the people who say start in a taildragger, start in a 150, start in a Cherokee, etc, etc.

There are plenty of people who start from scratch in brand new Cirrus SR22's including the turbo models, and who become excellent pilots. To do this, you seek out specialists, not the CFI's who hang out on the FBO couch and offer to fly for food. They don't know what they're doing.

There are a few dozen Cirrus specific people around the country that do this type of training. I am one of them, located in South Florida. We understand the airplane and the people who want to fly them. I can get references for a qualified CFI in your area. Or you can come to South Florida to fly one of several available Cirrus in Fort Lauderdale or Opa Locka.
 
I definitely recommend joining COPA the Cirrus Pilot group they are very helpful for those looking to learn to fly and buy a Cirrus. Good luck keep us posted. Cirrus is a great plane with nice glass cockpit.
 
Ron Levy said:
Derek is correct. However, the BRS for the 172/182 takes up most of the baggage compartment and adds a lot of weight, so factor that into your planning if you go that route.
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Does it really use up that much baggage compartment though? It sticks down from the overhead, does it really impinge that much on the useful space?
 
the chute assembly is roughly 14 inches wide, 10 inches thick, and 20 inches tall with the rocket installed, and weighs about 60 pounds.

Whether saving your behind is worth the installation costs, maintenance, and loss of useful load is entirely up to you.

There are over 100 people walking around today who would be dead or severely maimed had they not had a chute available. They would say the chute is worth every penny.
 
Thanks so much for the recommendation. I'm gonna take a drive down to San Marcos and take a look at their setup. Looks impressive.
 
You can do your basic flight training in a 747 if you can swing the cost. That said, I don't know if instructors consider the Cirrus a good trainer or not. I would think you would be better served doing your basic flight training in a more traditional trainer, like a 150 or even a 172 with steam gauges. You can then transition to what you wish.
 
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MBDiagMan said:
You can do your basic flight training in a 747 if you can swing the cost. That said, I don't know if instructors consider the Cirrus a good trainer or not. I would think you would be better served doing your basic flight training in a more traditional trainer, like a 150 or even a 172 with steam gauges. You can then transition to what you wish.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's true if you are going to fly with complex avionics. You will save time and cost to get to the point of competency with the equipment if you start with it. It's all about primacy and familiarity. It takes 5 minutes to learn to use the full functionality of a six pack and a Kx-155, it takes about 40 hrs to get reasonably proficient with a GNS-430/G-1000 panel because it offers so much more. The good thing about starting with the equipment is you don't need to know how to use 99% of it to start with and still be competent in dialing in frequencies on the radios in the first 5 minutes. However, you continually add familiarity and function throughout your training, plus you put in some extra time with the sim along the way while learning, and by the time you have a license to take passengers, you are already quite proficient with the equipment, and you have a much better base for starting your instrument work.

You can't think of your flight training like an MBA thinking about next quarters bottom line. You need to think of your end goal and the path that will get you competent at that most effectively. If the goal is to transport your family, then the most effective choice is to start if not in the plane, then at least with the avionics suite you intend to use going forward.
 
I just talked with a coworker who just did a demo flight in a G5-Turbo. To say that he and his brother (there are 4 of them buying into a plane) were impressed is an understatement.

After he returned, his wife saw the news about the recent Cirrus midair at KFDK and she (a non-pilot) put 2+2 together and gave him the thumbs-up on the plane purchase.
 
philiplane said:
the chute assembly is roughly 14 inches wide, 10 inches thick, and 20 inches tall with the rocket installed, and weighs about 60 pounds.
Click to expand...
IOW, if you want to carry 172 loads (e.g., three people and their baggage) with the BRS, you'll probably have to buy a 182 with the BRS and put the last bag in the fourth seat.
 
I am a flight instructor in the DFW area. Yes, you can do your primary flight training in the Cirrus sr22. As mentioned before you will probably need to own that aircraft to do that. If you can find someone to rent you a Cirrus sr22, it will be very expensive. I bought my first Seneca before I had a multi-rating, so why not?

David
 
kfvintx said:
As previously stated, your training would most likely be done in SR20. Any training program you find with Cirrus available will be in SR20. Only way to train in SR22 is for you to own it and then insurance would liekly be an issue.

As a current student and one that started my training in SR20, I have recently changed to finish my training at a school in a Piper. Owning a Cirrus is still a possibility in the future for me but will go through transition training at that time if that happens. I expect the transition training to be minimal since already pretty familiar with the plane.

Reason for my change -- Cirrus doesn't exactly fit my "most of the time" mission (5 kids) although I certainly like the platform and CAPS. Since a Cirrus is not 100% lock for me I thought better to finish training in a platform that will most likely be one I own and leave the Cirrus as backup.

And then there is the cost. I am in Houston area so rates are likely simialr to Austin. Cirrus SR20 is $250/hr plus fuel (about $50 per lesson) plus $74/hr for instructor. For average one hour flight lesson I am paying over $400. Alternatively, Piper is $109/hr incuding fuel and $42/hr for instructor. I will let you do the math for comparison.

And if ownership is not immediate, the rental for SR22 when ready is $350/hr plus fuel.

Good luck whichever route you go.
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Where can I rent Cirrus SRxx in Houston?
 
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