First Plane and Cirrus SR20 Gen 1/2/3 related questions.

[CT Arrow]

KFRG uncovered tie-down goes for $175/month and there's a 12-18 month wait.

Same deal for KSNC. There's over 50 people on the waiting list for a Hangar. Average wait is 3-5 years or until someone dies!

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Tony, hangar rentals are not for everyone due to many factors; cost, location, politics,,,, I think your losing sight of the posters original question, which was, hangar verse non-hanger. Clearly if the option exists to utilize a hangar, why wouldn't you?

I am fortunate to be based at a private, public access airport owned by a fiscally solvent Company whose product base supports aviation. Hangars are beyond reasonable priced, the grounds are immaculate and we have two excellent shops on field who cater to avionics and aircraft maintenance. Maybe you should move here?

Exactly my point. Why tell a guy not to buy an airplane or he can't afford an airplane? that is what you are telling guys who do not have an affordable choice of a hangar. Some here blindy blather out idiotic answers when they do not really know the question.

I felt it important to let people know that if your choice is not to fly, not to own or own with a hangar vs own on tie down, tie down is a good option, maybe not the best option but still an option.

And if I fell on hard times financially I would down grade my Comanche to an Arrow and put it on the flight line (free tie down) and possibly put it on lease back if I had to but I will still fly and still be an airplane owner, albeit not in the elegant style that I have become accustom too.

We wonder why more people don't buy airplanes and share out love and so we have to be careful telling them that they way they can afford to own a plane is somehow not up to our standards.

 

[poadeleted21]

Exactly my point. Why tell a guy not to buy an airplane or he can't afford an airplane? that is what you are telling guys who do not have an affordable choice of a hangar. Some here blindy blather out idiotic answers when they do not really know the question.

I felt it important to let people know that if your choice is not to fly, not to own or own with a hangar vs own on tie down, tie down is a good option, maybe not the best option but still an option.

And if I fell on hard times financially I would down grade my Comanche to an Arrow and put it on the flight line (free tie down) and possibly put it on lease back if I had to but I will still fly and still be an airplane owner, albeit not in the elegant style that I have become accustom too.

We wonder why more people don't buy airplanes and share out love and so we have to be careful telling them that they way they can afford to own a plane is somehow not up to our standards.

Given the weather I've seen move through and the planes destroyed by it, I probably wouldn't own a plane if my only option was to leave it on the ramp, I take better care of my grill. But hey if you want to throw 200K out on the ramp and challenge the world, be my guest.

 

[Jaybird180]

We wonder why more people don't buy airplanes and share out love and so we have to be careful telling them that they way they can afford to own a plane is somehow not up to our standards.

I recall reading a type-club website (Don't recall Mooney or Cirrus) that made it clear that it was nearly a crime to not hangar the beloved <insert airplane type here>. Do not buy if you cannot afford to hangar. Definately elitist, but didn't come across that way at the time.

 

[poadeleted21]

I recall reading a type-club website (Don't recall Mooney or Cirrus) that made it clear that it was nearly a crime to not hangar the beloved <insert airplane type here>. Do not buy if you cannot afford to hangar. Definately elitist, but didn't come across that way at the time.

I wouldn't call it elitist, just a reality if you want to take care of your rig.

In the past 5 years, I've seen new hail damage occur on numerous planes, a micro burst that totaled 2 planes (I posted a picture of one here a while back), a thunderbumper that totaled a Cherokee (attempted to fly with no pilot and smashed the nose gear, was tied down) and the overall general condition of the planes that graze on the ramp. I've also seen in the news and this forum, events like the storms in Ft. Worth and Sun-N-Fun.

With that experience in mind:

I have acquired 2 planes in my life. Spent months searching for them and wasting money along the way on planes that I did not buy. Dropped a lot of cash and time into getting the plane across the US, getting current in my ability to fly the thing and spent mucho dinero getting the plane up to my standards i.e. getting to where I can trust myself and the aircraft. This is a months-to-years long process that is expensive. No way I'm letting one thunderstorm reset me back to square one. If my plane was written off today, I'd be money and time behind after I cashed the insurance check. Also note that your insurance will be higher if your plane lives on the ramp, not sure how much though.

My situation right now is not optimal. It's 42 miles from my doorstep to my hangar, the hangar is $600/mo that I split with a Cessna 150. I have to drag him out of the way everytime I go flying. It beats paying a nominal amount for a tie down at the airport I WORK AT and live beside.

 

[Jaybird180]

I wouldn't call it elitist, just a reality if you want to take care of your rig.

In the past 5 years, I've seen new hail damage occur on numerous planes, a micro burst that totaled 2 planes (I posted a picture of one here a while back), a thunderbumper that totaled a Cherokee (attempted to fly with no pilot and smashed the nose gear, was tied down) and the overall general condition of the planes that graze on the ramp. I've also seen in the news and this forum, events like the storms in Ft. Worth and Sun-N-Fun.

With that experience in mind:

I have acquired 2 planes in my life. Spent months searching for them and wasting money along the way on planes that I did not buy. Dropped a lot of cash and time into getting the plane across the US, getting current in my ability to fly the thing and spent mucho dinero getting the plane up to my standards i.e. getting to where I can trust myself and the aircraft. This is a months-to-years long process that is expensive. No way I'm letting one thunderstorm reset me back to square one. If my plane was written off today, I'd be money and time behind after I cashed the insurance check. Also note that your insurance will be higher if your plane lives on the ramp, not sure how much though.

My situation right now is not optimal. It's 42 miles from my doorstep to my hangar, the hangar is $600/mo that I split with a Cessna 150. I have to drag him out of the way everytime I go flying. It beats paying a nominal amount for a tie down at the airport I WORK AT and live beside.

I understand the time, effort and improvements issue. This all would be classsified as sentimental value.

However, weather phenomena happen and can be unpredictable. Insurance companies make a bet on the likelihood of one happening in the form of a premium. The self-flying Cherokee: One could possibly argue that it was improperly tied down.

 

[CT Arrow]

Exactly my point. Why tell a guy not to buy an airplane or he can't afford an airplane? that is what you are telling guys who do not have an affordable choice of a hangar. Some here blindly blather out idiotic answers when they do not really know the question..

I am not sure where the airplane buying factor came in verse hangar / Tie down. No one ever posted "don't buy" if you don't have a hangar. It's a personal choice and some, including myself would seek other alternatives. All options should be explored based on one's needs.

I felt it important to let people know that if your choice is not to fly, not to own or own with a hangar vs own on tie down, tie down is a good option, maybe not the best option but still an option..

Agree! If that's all you can afford well so be it...

And if I fell on hard times financially I would down grade my Comanche to an Arrow and put it on the flight line (free tie down) and possibly put it on lease back if I had to but I will still fly and still be an airplane owner, albeit not in the elegant style that I have become accustom too. .

If I lose my hangar at it's current location due to whatever, I will seek out Shelter somewhere else. I feel strongly about keeping an aircraft in a hangar for many of the reasons listed. If losing my hangar is due to financial, then I probably don't need to own an aircraft anyway...

We wonder why more people don't buy airplanes and share out love and so we have to be careful telling them that they way they can afford to own a plane is somehow not up to our standards.

I don't think anyone has set standards. Again, personal choice is up to you as to how you want to secure / store your aircraft. Aircraft ownership is expensive which is why the number of aircraft owners continue to dwindle. Frankly, I run the numbers every year and shutter to think what I have spent on "Aircraft ownership". A shrink would have been cheaper. At some point I too will pack it in and say "that was fun, but I can't justify costs anymore"

 

[poadeleted21]

I understand the time, effort and improvements issue. This all would be classsified as sentimental value.

However, weather phenomena happen and can be unpredictable. Insurance companies make a bet on the likelihood of one happening in the form of a premium. The self-flying Cherokee: One could possibly argue that it was improperly tied down.

I don't work for free, my time is $ and I assure you I don't pay mechanics to create squawk lists on other people's rigs for sentimental reasons. Those are real money actual costs to acquire an aircraft.

Then after the purchase:

All new hoses, rebuilt gyros, all new filters, all new tires, all new baffling, rebuilt pitot/static instruments, new CDI, new Alt Encoder, rebuilt mags and cleaning up 30 years worth of wiring, perform recommended Service Bulletins etc.., aren't sentimental. They're what I do when the log books don't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about any of the above items and it'll run ya' about 10 grand or so in real money.

A 2 hr checkout hardly makes one as comfy handling the plane than a couple years and a couple hundred hours.

The sun is bad.
The rain is bad.
The snow is bad.
The sleet is bad.
The ice is bad.
The wind is bad.
The critters are bad.
The busybodies at the airport are bad.
The heli parking beside you is bad.
The guy running up his rig in front of you is bad.
The guy not paying attention when taxing is bad.
The line guy in the fuel truck is bad.
The folks stealing avionics are bad.
The fan boat guy who needs a new engine is bad.

Would you buy a $200K Lambo and store it in a WalMart parking lot?

 

[jmp470]

Given the weather I've seen move through and the planes destroyed by it, I probably wouldn't own a plane if my only option was to leave it on the ramp, I take better care of my grill. But hey if you want to throw 200K out on the ramp and challenge the world, be my guest.

If you can afford the plane. You can afford to move it for bad weather.

 

[poadeleted21]

If you can afford the plane. You can afford to move it for bad weather.

That sounds fun, watching the weather day in and day out and rushing to the airport to move it at the hint of anything serious.

Flying in a micro burst is fun. I believe wikipedia has an entire section dedicated to the activity of flying in them. And yup, I've seen them hit an airport and destroy planes, I did get a lot of free firewood out that one though. All those folks at Sun-N-Fun must have been too poor to move their rigs too when that Tornado came through.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it from the guy doing his run up in front of it every other day.

if you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it when the heli guys come in and park near you.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it when the transient pilot's 9 year old visits the airport and decides to do various things to it.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it before they guy boosting GPSes steals yours.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it before the fan boat guy detaches your engine and heads off into the night with it.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it when the sun is shining.

Or you could get a hangar.

Your plane, your money. I personally wouldn't invest the time and effort in owning a plane if I were just going to put it out on the ramp to fend for itself, I'd just rent. It takes about the first 8 seconds of a pre-buy to spot a plane that's been sitting on the ramp for any amount of time.

I have a buddy with a plane 2,500 miles away from home, he won't bring it home until he finds a hangar for it.

 

[jmp470]

That sounds fun, watching the weather day in and day out and rushing to the airport to move it at the hint of anything serious.

Flying in a micro burst is fun. I believe wikipedia has an entire section dedicated to the activity of flying in them. And yup, I've seen them hit an airport and destroy planes, I did get a lot of free firewood out that one though. All those folks at Sun-N-Fun must have been too poor to move their rigs too when that Tornado came through.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it from the guy doing his run up in front of it every other day.

if you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it when the heli guys come in and park near you.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it when the transient pilot's 9 year old visits the airport and decides to do various things to it.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it before they guy boosting GPSes steals yours.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it before the fan boat guy detaches your engine and heads off into the night with it.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it when the sun is shining.

Or you could get a hangar.

Your plane, your money. I personally wouldn't invest the time and effort in owning a plane if I were just going to put it out on the ramp to fend for itself, I'd just rent. It takes about the first 8 seconds of a pre-buy to spot a plane that's been sitting on the ramp for any amount of time.

I have a buddy with a plane 2,500 miles away from home, he won't bring it home until he finds a hangar for it.

I don't understand why you are whining! You own an airplane for it to sit in your hanger? You never go anywhere that requires your plane to sit outside? Stop complaining and preaching that in order to own an airplane you require a hanger, because it is not essential for everyone. But we understand that you and your buddy wouldn't own an airplane without a hanger.

 

[poadeleted21]

I don't understand why you are whining! You own an airplane for it to sit in your hanger? You never go anywhere that requires your plane to sit outside? Stop complaining and preaching that in order to own an airplane you require a hanger, because it is not essential for everyone. But we understand that you and your buddy wouldn't own an airplane without a hanger.

Mr scarpelli was the one who "blasted off" and started "blindly blathering off idiotic answers" then suggested that people who say that hangaring a plane is essential are elitist. Merely defending my viewpoint. That is allowed isn't it?

 

[jmp470]

Mr scarpelli was the one who "blasted off" and started "blindly blathering off idiotic answers" then suggested that people who say that hangaring a plane is essential are elitist. Merely defending my viewpoint. That is allowed isn't it?

absolutely it is allowed, however, the point of view of; you cannot own an airplane without a hangar is ridiculous for many airplanes. BUT, it is a good idea to have one if you can find one.

 

[Jaybird180]

That sounds fun, watching the weather day in and day out and rushing to the airport to move it at the hint of anything serious.

Flying in a micro burst is fun. I believe wikipedia has an entire section dedicated to the activity of flying in them. And yup, I've seen them hit an airport and destroy planes, I did get a lot of free firewood out that one though. All those folks at Sun-N-Fun must have been too poor to move their rigs too when that Tornado came through.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it from the guy doing his run up in front of it every other day.

if you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it when the heli guys come in and park near you.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it when the transient pilot's 9 year old visits the airport and decides to do various things to it.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it before they guy boosting GPSes steals yours.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it before the fan boat guy detaches your engine and heads off into the night with it.

If you can afford the plane, you can afford to move it when the sun is shining.

Or you could get a hangar.

Your plane, your money. I personally wouldn't invest the time and effort in owning a plane if I were just going to put it out on the ramp to fend for itself, I'd just rent. It takes about the first 8 seconds of a pre-buy to spot a plane that's been sitting on the ramp for any amount of time.

I have a buddy with a plane 2,500 miles away from home, he won't bring it home until he finds a hangar for it.

Geez, you make me afraid to have an airplane with a good engine and GPS outside.

Wait.....mine IS outside

 

[spdracer888]

Folks, the intent of my question is more due to the lack of availability than cost.

As I mentioned in my previous post, my local airport KFRG has tie-downs with a year wait but no private hangar. I can drive 30 minutes to KISP and possibly get a hangar (still no firm answer). I live in NY so regardless of tie-downs or a hanger, I'm gonna get it up the a$$ either way...lol.

If no hangar is available, maybe I'll get a good plane with slight cosmetic imperfection and leave it at a tie-down.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Given the weather I've seen move through and the planes destroyed by it, I probably wouldn't own a plane if my only option was to leave it on the ramp, I take better care of my grill. But hey if you want to throw 200K out on the ramp and challenge the world, be my guest.

I guess it is really good that you don't have a 200k plane.

That is silly, that is the only real thing insurance is good for....

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

I recall reading a type-club website (Don't recall Mooney or Cirrus) that made it clear that it was nearly a crime to not hangar the beloved <insert airplane type here>. Do not buy if you cannot afford to hangar. Definately elitist, but didn't come across that way at the time.

my bet is cirri because of the carbon skins. I see mooneys on the ramp all the time. But now we are talking about a $600k vs a $40k-200k plane (most mooneys).

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

I wouldn't call it elitist, just a reality if you want to take care of your rig.

In the past 5 years, I've seen new hail damage occur on numerous planes, a micro burst that totaled 2 planes (I posted a picture of one here a while back), a thunderbumper that totaled a Cherokee (attempted to fly with no pilot and smashed the nose gear, was tied down) and the overall general condition of the planes that graze on the ramp. I've also seen in the news and this forum, events like the storms in Ft. Worth and Sun-N-Fun.

With that experience in mind:

I have acquired 2 planes in my life. Spent months searching for them and wasting money along the way on planes that I did not buy. Dropped a lot of cash and time into getting the plane across the US, getting current in my ability to fly the thing and spent mucho dinero getting the plane up to my standards i.e. getting to where I can trust myself and the aircraft. This is a months-to-years long process that is expensive. No way I'm letting one thunderstorm reset me back to square one. If my plane was written off today, I'd be money and time behind after I cashed the insurance check. Also note that your insurance will be higher if your plane lives on the ramp, not sure how much though.

My situation right now is not optimal. It's 42 miles from my doorstep to my hangar, the hangar is $600/mo that I split with a Cessna 150. I have to drag him out of the way everytime I go flying. It beats paying a nominal amount for a tie down at the airport I WORK AT and live beside.

And I thought I was the only uninsured owner around here? Still, if I had my plane on tie down, I do think I would spend the $1100 to insure my old bird.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

The sun is bad.
The rain is bad.
The snow is bad.
The sleet is bad.
The ice is bad.
The wind is bad.
The critters are bad.
The busybodies at the airport are bad.
The heli parking beside you is bad.
The guy running up his rig in front of you is bad.
The guy not paying attention when taxing is bad.
The line guy in the fuel truck is bad.
The folks stealing avionics are bad.
The fan boat guy who needs a new engine is bad.

Would you buy a $200K Lambo and store it in a WalMart parking lot?

Now we need to get our snow boots on as it is getting deep in here. And I am not talking about snow.

I park my cars, vans, trucks outside 360 days a year. Not because of cost but because the penalty is not even worth the time to raise the garage door and put it in.

You usually make good sense in your posts but I think you are getting a bit hysterical here.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Mr scarpelli was the one who "blasted off" and started "blindly blathering off idiotic answers" then suggested that people who say that hangaring a plane is essential are elitist. Merely defending my viewpoint. That is allowed isn't it?

Hey, Rusty,

What you GA Country rednecks call a hangar doesn't really count anyway.

I was in the Army down your way and any straight road with some timber shack is an airport. I guess I can see why you are so obsessed.

 

[poadeleted21]

Now we need to get our snow boots on as it is getting deep in here. And I am not talking about snow.

I park my cars, vans, trucks outside 360 days a year. Not because of cost but because the penalty is not even worth the time to raise the garage door and put it in.

You usually make good sense in your posts but I think you are getting a bit hysterical here.

A $10,000 civic in the safety of your driveway is a far cry from a plane exposed to the general public. OP is considering a $200K plane, he'd be insane to park that on the lot IMHO. I would sell my old Bonanza before I did that to it and its not worth half that.

I walked the ramp today, all but one plane out there looked horrid.

 

[poadeleted21]

Hey, Rusty,

What you GA Country rednecks call a hangar doesn't really count anyway.

I was in the Army down your way and any straight road with some timber shack is an airport. I guess I can see why you are so obsessed.

Ill be sure to tell your old pals at the FT Stewart army base (where I HANGAR my plane) how you feel about the new aviation facilities.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

ROTGLMAF!

Ok you got me....you win.

 

[Henning]

Go ahead and buy the SR-22 now, finish your PP training in it and immediately move into your instrument training. No need to waste money on 'stepping up'.