First IR Lesson Yesterday

[MDeitch1976]

Last night I started IR training with my instructor. Her and her husband have a flight sim at home that I can build 10 hours in. Her lesson plan has 20 hours instruction in the actual plane, and part of the lesson plan has 10 hours in the sim which seems like a good idea.. We are going to combine cross countries into several of the lessons to help build the XC time up. What is an average amount of time people tend to need to be ready for the check ride? If I go out with another pilot to serve as a safety pilot, how easy is it to get ATC to provide practice approaches, holds, and such? Any helpful tips?

 

[somorris]

Hi Matt.

It took a looming re-take of the IR written to motivate me to finish up. So, the IR took me about two years total calendar time.

I don't know about flying with a safety pilot while you are in training. I didn't do that, and am not sure it would be conducive to good training. Maybe some of the CFII's here will chime in with help.

Good luck!

 

[ja_user]

A lot of people are able to completely their IFR in the required 40 hours, as long as you fly very regularly and commit to doing it.

40.3 hours here (hood, actual and sim) in 3 months, all Dual.


Safety Pilots can be fine, as long as it is later in the training and you don't use it to try to replace extra Dual that you may need.

 

[Alexb2000]

Last night I started IR training with my instructor. Her and her husband have a flight sim at home that I can build 10 hours in. Her lesson plan has 20 hours instruction in the actual plane, and part of the lesson plan has 10 hours in the sim which seems like a good idea.. We are going to combine cross countries into several of the lessons to help build the XC time up. What is an average amount of time people tend to need to be ready for the check ride? If I go out with another pilot to serve as a safety pilot, how easy is it to get ATC to provide practice approaches, holds, and such? Any helpful tips?

I would rather pay the premium and fly and actual airplane in real weather as much as possible and in the ATC system as much as possible. I doubt you will have any problem flying an approach. You learn to read the chart and fly it, no biggie. Approaches are a heading and an altitude or glide slope.

The challenges for me were learning to talk the talk with ATC, learning how to use the system to get what I want, and all of the other procedural gotchas that don't include approaches.

Next learning to look at the weather is critical. I am no meteorologist, but learning about the weather to the extent required for IFR flying is very important. Some of which can only be learned in the aircraft.

No substitue for the real deal IMO and worth the extra money. First time you're zig-zagging through a storm line you'll know what I mean.

Just a .02

 

[MDeitch1976]

My instructor had said most students do all their time Dual. She did say I could go out with a safety pilot to build some of the cross country time needed. She did prefer it be another IR rated pilot. I definitely would wait until after I knock out most of the time with the instructor. The last 10 hours on her lesson plan consists of the 250NM XC, and a couple lesson plans, one consisting of practicing precision approaches, and the other practicing non precision, also a mock check ride. I am thinking before that building XC time with a safety pilot.

I probably will be on the extended plan. My PPL was spread out over 9 months and 50 hours.. Hopefully, the IR I can do an at least half the time.

 

[MDeitch1976]

I would rather pay the premium and fly and actual airplane in real weather as much as possible and in the ATC system as much as possible. I doubt you will have any problem flying an approach. You learn to read the chart and fly it, no biggie. Approaches are a heading and an altitude or glide slope.

The challenges for me were learning to talk the talk with ATC, learning how to use the system to get what I want, and all of the other procedural gotchas that don't include approaches.

Next learning to look at the weather is critical. I am no meteorologist, but learning about the weather to the extent required for IFR flying is very important. Some of which can only be learned in the aircraft.

No substitue for the real deal IMO and worth the extra money. First time you're zig-zagging through a storm line you'll know what I mean.

Just a .02

I do think I understand already. My instructor of course had me working on the scan and some basic maneuvers. And, I had said this is going to be a lot harder when I have to talk to someone too.

 

[poadeleted20]

What is an average amount of time people tend to need to be ready for the check ride?

40-50 hours of instrument time.

If I go out with another pilot to serve as a safety pilot, how easy is it to get ATC to provide practice approaches, holds, and such?

Usually pretty easy, and in many cases (like practicing holds) no ATC approval is required, although obtaining flight following is still a good idea.

Any helpful tips?

Make sure your instructor knows your plans to practice with a safety pilot, and gives you appropriate "homework" assignments. Don't try practicing with a safety pilot anything you haven't yet learned from your instructor.

 

[poadeleted20]

I would rather pay the premium and fly and actual airplane in real weather as much as possible and in the ATC system as much as possible.

That's a good idea, but don't skip getting sim training on the ground before flight. The airplane cockpit is a terrible classroom (noise, distractions, etc), and you can't get near as many repetitions of things like holding pattern entries or trips down the glide slope as you can with the sim. Any good instructor will integrate appropriate ATC calls as part of the sim training, so you'll get to practice those there, too. Bottom line: Get your knowledge and procedures down pat in the sim, then go practice them in flight.

 

[dukeblue219]

I passed my checkride right at ~40 hours of instrument training time, with the maximum (20 hours) possible in the flight training device I used. We generally alternated between learning new concepts in the simulator and then flying cross countries "in the system". It worked really well for me because I could pause the simulator if I had an urgent question or got too far behind the scenario, and then once I figured it out we could do it in the real plane. Plus, with the simulator you can fly a million approaches in the same time you might fly 3 in the plane, and for less cost.

Oh yeah, all of my time was dual (no safety pilot time), and we almost always filed and flew in the system when we were in the actual airplane, and did as much actual IMC as possible (highly recommend this part).

 

[Z06_Mir]

It took me 3.5 months including 2 mechanicals that cost me over a week. I was at about 50hrs simulated but there was an extra five hours or so with another CFI that wasn't really so much about the instrument rating but about flying IFR, before I officially started my training. Where I am at it's easy to get practice approaches "Phoenix Approach, bugsmasher 12345 10 south of Facta, requesting VOR 4R at CHD beginning at FACTA with B" they'll come back with a squawk, give you radar vectors if you wish and you're on your way. I only did on IFR XC during my official training. I would have been screwed my first couple time solo "in the system" had I not spent those few hours pre official training with another CFI. Fly in the system often.

I never used a sim either. Everything was done in the airplane. I used a safety pilot a couple times since both the boyfriend and I were training at the same time. It works, but your instructor is more knowledgable about giving vectors and whatnot. I safety pilot for him now quite a bit since he is finishing his up now. If you don't fly frequently you WILL forget more than you did during your PPL. The procedures, checklists everything comes so much easier if you drill it into your head day after day.

 

[MDeitch1976]

After practicing sim work with the instructor, would it be counter productive to practice those maneuvers on Microsoft FSX? We spent the first hour doing Straight and Level, Climbs, Descents, climbing turns, and descending turns. Of course practicing not fixating and keeping the scan going. I was thinking about practicing this at home.

 

[bobmrg]

After practicing sim work with the instructor, would it be counter productive to practice those maneuvers on Microsoft FSX? We spent the first hour doing Straight and Level, Climbs, Descents, climbing turns, and descending turns. Of course practicing not fixating and keeping the scan going. I was thinking about practicing this at home.

Much of basic instrument flying is muscle memory, and you're not going to get that in a sim (unless it belongs to Boeing or Flight Safety or...)

Bob Gardner

 

[douglas393]

It took me 40 hours of time to get my IFR. It was done all in my own plane, and I had no sim time(except for about 20 minutes the night before the checkride to demonstrate something... not logged). I used MSFX at home(yoke, panel, pedals, huge screen, whole 9 yards) and am not sure I found it real useful. Though I did not use the sim for training, I can see where it is quite useful. You can stop mid flight, and discuss things, the need to fly the plane and all that is not there, and simulated failures are more lifelike as opposed in the plane. For me, however, it was cheaper and more fun to use my own plane. I do not understand why you need to do your cross country time dual, other than the required cross country in instrument settings, all my other cross country(for the req'd 50 hours) was solo or with non instructor passengers.

Good luck. I found the training to be some of the most fun I have had with flying, but also the most challenging.

 

[MDeitch1976]

I do not understand why you need to do your cross country time dual, other than the required cross country in instrument settings, all my other cross country(for the req'd 50 hours) was solo or with non instructor passengers.

Most of my flying to date has been joy rides out and about within 50nm of the airport. I still have required time to build. That is why I am combining the time with the instruction.

The many people who have said they want to go flying have dwindled once realizing I actually obtained my Private. One of the troubles with renting is a minimum hours for the whole day. My instructor is using another schools plane that gets used very little, so I may be able to start renting that and be able to take it out overnight without having minimums. This should make it easier to bring people along for more than a day trip to the beach.

 

[Tony_Fletcher]

Hi, Matt,

I'm going to take a guess that you are flying out of GAI?

I'm also working on my IR rating out at VKX, not far from you.

I don't see anything wrong with logging time with a safety pilot as long as you make real training flights and practice tracking, etc. Any time with the foggles is time well spent I think. Maybe after you and your instructor learn a new concept, you could repeat it with the safety pilot?

As for practice approaches, Just say something like, "Easton tower, N555 requesting a VFR PRACTICE ILS runway 4." Key here being "VFR PRACTICE."

I have a SIM at home too with X-plane and I find it great for practicing VOR tracking, localizers, etc. The other day, my instructor and I were doing some "back course" LOC tracking where the needle is reversed, and it was great to practice the same concept on the SIM. We only did it twice in the air, but on the SIM, I could do it over and over.

Best of luck!

 

[MDeitch1976]

Hi, Matt,

I'm going to take a guess that you are flying out of GAI?


I don't see anything wrong with logging time with a safety pilot as long as you make real training flights and practice tracking, etc. Any time with the foggles is time well spent I think. Maybe after you and your instructor learn a new concept, you could repeat it with the safety pilot?

As for practice approaches, Just say something like, "Easton tower, N555 requesting a VFR PRACTICE ILS runway 4." Key here being "VFR PRACTICE."

I have a SIM at home too with X-plane and I find it great for practicing VOR tracking, localizers, etc. The other day, my instructor and I were doing some "back course" LOC tracking where the needle is reversed, and it was great to practice the same concept on the SIM. We only did it twice in the air, but on the SIM, I could do it over and over.

Best of luck!

I am training out of GAI. Originally obtained my Private from Fleming. 172 Training at WIFA. My instructor uses a plane from another airport that spends most of its time at GAI.

Like you, I think I would agree to learn from the instructor and then get some more practice with a safety pilot.

Not sure how much longer people will be able to practice calling Easton for an ILS practice?

Glad to hear the home SIM does have some training purposes.

Good luck on your training!