first class medical/"substance abuse"

[FlyPrincess]

I agree with your analysis, Princess, except for the part about a delay costing a lot down the road. Two years is nothing, especially with the mandatory retirement age just raised by five years.

Everything else is right on - stop using, go to a more general school, get the instruction on the side, and get on with with the program.

TM, I have to respectfully disagree with how much it can cost -

2 years X $300,000 or more = $600,000.00! PLUS the fact that many pension plans (where they still exist) base your reitirement income of a variety of factors, including last year's pay, average pay over the last x number of years, etc. - this can cost a small fortune in investing potential. Someone once told me that the cost of delaying career start was roughly equivalent to the annual income on the back end of your career, and then some, plus interest on some of it. That's pretty close.

You are also talking about seniority issues and market timing (i.e. which end of the hiring curve he ends up on.) This can make a huge monetary AND quality of life difference for years to come when you finally get to where you're going. For example, my SO was hired in on the leading edge (no pun intended!) of the company's last hiring round, and will automatically be able to get preferential bid options (lines, scheduling, vacation, domiciles, etc.) - and when you're talking about a few people standing in the way of your Asia domicile vs. U.S. domicile, that can be quite the quality of life difference when you have a family.

Just my two cents!

Flame away....

 

[tonycondon]

im with princess, in almost any line of work, delaying entry does not pay off in the end. If you are going for the big money or into a job where seniority really matters, starting early is key.

 

[steingar]

Lots of things affect lifetime earning potential. Stay single and live in a trailer, and invest your salary in something safe, you make plenty of money.

I don't know why the kid is so allergic to a good state school. Heck, he might even learn something. Jeekers, he might even learn he likes something else better to do and fly for fun. I know its hard to make decisions and change paths, but sometimes you need to in order to do the right thing. Too many VFR pilots have flown right into the IMC because they were too reluctant to change their paths.

By the way, I think I'm on three former jet pilots who got out of the biz and went back to school. Forget flying for the Man, it sounds like a drag. I'll take my own airplane and a sunny day, if I ever see one of those again.

 

[TMetzinger]

TM, I have to respectfully disagree with how much it can cost -

2 years X $300,000 or more = $600,000.00! PLUS the fact that many pension plans (where they still exist) base your reitirement income of a variety of factors, including last year's pay, average pay over the last x number of years, etc. - this can cost a small fortune in investing potential. Someone once told me that the cost of delaying career start was roughly equivalent to the annual income on the back end of your career, and then some, plus interest on some of it. That's pretty close.

You are also talking about seniority issues and market timing (i.e. which end of the hiring curve he ends up on.) This can make a huge monetary AND quality of life difference for years to come when you finally get to where you're going. For example, my SO was hired in on the leading edge (no pun intended!) of the company's last hiring round, and will automatically be able to get preferential bid options (lines, scheduling, vacation, domiciles, etc.) - and when you're talking about a few people standing in the way of your Asia domicile vs. U.S. domicile, that can be quite the quality of life difference when you have a family.

Just my two cents!

Flame away....

First, who pays (at least US majors) $300K per year for a pilot nowadays?

But my real point was that his career potential just got a legislative extension of 5 years, so even if he waited he had three "extra" years.

That said, you're quite right that timing is everything, and entering the market at the uptick of the hiring curve is good. I'm not so sure about seniority anymore, as I'd be willing to bet that anybody who starts flying for an airline now will see his seniority wiped out by a merger/bankruptcy or two along the way.

And forget about a defined benefit pension based on your earnings - you'll be lucky to get the equivalent of a a 401(K) defined contribution plan (under which I freely grant that the earlier you start saving, the better).

 

[FlyPrincess]

First, who pays (at least US majors) $300K per year for a pilot nowadays?

Base salary? Nobody. But add open flying and it's a completely different picture. One CA I know made over 400K last year - do you think he's sorry he didn't wait for two more years?! Even without interest OR a pension plan, that's $800,000.00.

But my real point was that his career potential just got a legislative extension of 5 years, so even if he waited he had three "extra" years.

Yes, and so did his time in the right seat. 5 more years at right seat pay. All the more reason to get into it and get a seniority number ASAP, if you're going to do it.

That said, you're quite right that timing is everything, and entering the market at the uptick of the hiring curve is good. I'm not so sure about seniority anymore, as I'd be willing to bet that anybody who starts flying for an airline now will see his seniority wiped out by a merger/bankruptcy or two along the way.

And forget about a defined benefit pension based on your earnings - you'll be lucky to get the equivalent of a a 401(K) defined contribution plan (under which I freely grant that the earlier you start saving, the better).

I believe there was a new law enacted that forbids "stapling" of seniority lists, so the lists are merged as well now. Either way, more seniority is always better than less. All the more so, if there are changes on the horizon. NEVER PASS UP A CLASS DATE! That may make the difference for a select few between furlough and a 35 year career at their company.

Defined benefit pensions still exist - that's what ours is. As for saving anything even marginally significant on a regional airline pilot's income, (especially if you have a family, as many do by the time they have been there for 8-10 years) good luck with that!

 

[Aztec Driver]

Base salary? Nobody. But add open flying and it's a completely different picture. One CA I know made over 400K last year - do you think he's sorry he didn't wait for two more years?! Even without interest OR a pension plan, that's $800,000.00.



Yes, and so did his time in the right seat. 5 more years at right seat pay. All the more reason to get into it and get a seniority number ASAP, if you're going to do it.



I believe there was a new law enacted that forbids "stapling" of seniority lists, so the lists are merged as well now. Either way, more seniority is always better than less. All the more so, if there are changes on the horizon. NEVER PASS UP A CLASS DATE! That may make the difference for a select few between furlough and a 35 year career at their company.

Defined benefit pensions still exist - that's what ours is. As for saving anything even marginally significant on a regional airline pilot's income, (especially if you have a family, as many do by the time they have been there for 8-10 years) good luck with that!

This whole premise ignores the original posters predicament. If he doesn't wait, or take another college option, he will be lying on the medical application, a fraudulent statement he has already apparently made once. Are you suggesting that he do so again, and hope he gets away with it?

 

[gprellwitz]

a fraudulent statement he has already apparently made once.

Assuming facts not in evidence. He didn't say that he got his current medical after smoking. At least not that I recall (and I'm too tired to review the transcript )

 

[bbchien]

The first thing he needs to do is come clean with his parents. They'll understand the need to send the OP to STATE U with funds for being a flight student as well.

Sigh.

 

[FlyPrincess]

This whole premise ignores the original posters predicament. If he doesn't wait, or take another college option, he will be lying on the medical application, a fraudulent statement he has already apparently made once. Are you suggesting that he do so again, and hope he gets away with it?

I don't know that the poster has or hasn't lied on his application. I am not suggesting that he should. However, in counseling someone for their career, I would NEVER suggest to that he divulge anything that he is not REQUIRED to by law.

The idea that people are going to 'confess' that once many years ago they did something marginal at the age of 16 is probably not very realistic, nor is it something that is necessarily relevant at this point, assuming he can pass a drug test and is not planning any other experiemental excursions.

Personally, I would contact the FSDO and get a legal opinion on the reg prior to filling out the forms if I had any questions. It really all depends on how the question is worded.

I'm not sure how my response skirts the issue ~ I offered a very valid solution that simply excludes ERAU from the equation, thereby eliminating the dilemma. This is the course I would take, but then again, I have no desire to attend a program like the one that Riddle offers.

 

[Aztec Driver]

I don't know that the poster has or hasn't lied on his application. I am not suggesting that he should. However, in counseling someone for their career, I would NEVER suggest to that he divulge anything that he is not REQUIRED to by law.

In answer to people claiming "facts not in evidence, I refer you to the OP own initial post.

I am a senior in high school with a private license and a 3rd class medical
However, I am somewhat worried about the repercussions of having occasionally used marijuana in high school
where I see there's a little box for "illegal substance use in the last 2 years".

Personally, I would contact the FSDO and get a legal opinion on the reg prior to filling out the forms if I had any questions. It really all depends on how the question is worded.

Wouldn't that do exactly what you are suggesting he doesn't do, namely not open himself up to examination?

I'm not sure how my response skirts the issue ~ I offered a very valid solution that simply excludes ERAU from the equation, thereby eliminating the dilemma. This is the course I would take, but then again, I have no desire to attend a program like the one that Riddle offers.

Ah, sorry, I thought you were subscribing to the just lie and don't worry about it, just don't wait. I agree with the state college route, that way he doesn't have to wait, and can still tell the truth.

 

[gprellwitz]

In answer to people claiming "facts not in evidence, I refer you to the OP own initial post.

Bryon, the initial post doesn't state whether the use was before or after he applied for the medical. Not disputing the usage, just stating that the perjury isn't in evidence. (And furthermore, I'm using the male pronoun based on common usage, not because the OP is known to be male.)

 

[FlyPrincess]

In answer to people claiming "facts not in evidence, I refer you to the OP own initial post.


Wouldn't that do exactly what you are suggesting he doesn't do, namely not open himself up to examination?


Ah, sorry, I thought you were subscribing to the just lie and don't worry about it, just don't wait. I agree with the state college route, that way he doesn't have to wait, and can still tell the truth.

Well, we can sit and argue semantics all day long. I think the original poster probably gets the jist of what I'm trying to say. If not, he (or she) can certainly feel free to contact me privately about it. As to opening oneself up to examination, that is his personal choice. There are ways around that, too - he could get someone to ask on his behalf, and get it in writing. He could call anonymously, and then follow up with a legal opinion in writing - the guys at the FSDO aren't "out to get us" you know. I have found them to be very helpful with clarification on particular issues. And yes, you naturally would want to be discreet with whom you dispense information to about yourself, but if he isn't planning to lie and wants to know the best way to fill out the forms, that is one way of getting the info. He just needs to phrase the question, "Can you explain to me exactly what must be disclosed on this form, and how?"

It seems like some want to make a moral argument out of it... that's fine, but not what I was intending with my response. AND, there is a morality for counseling young, up and coming new pilots as well - seems like there should be an honesty with regard to whether we are trying to actually guide them in their best interest or, on a more moral theme, for "the greater good." Sometimes one is at odds with the other!

Again, just my two cents.

 

[t0r0nad0]

flyprincess, you've made a few posts in this thread and others, and I haven't come across anyone saying this yet (which we're usually pretty good about), so...

Welcome to POA!!!

BTW... I agree with your points completely, he should go for a state school and train on the side, then he doesn't need to reapply for the medical until after the statute of limitations has passed.

 

[FlyPrincess]

flyprincess, you've made a few posts in this thread and others, and I haven't come across anyone saying this yet (which we're usually pretty good about), so...

Welcome to POA!!!

BTW... I agree with your points completely, he should go for a state school and train on the side, then he doesn't need to reapply for the medical until after the statute of limitations has passed.

Thanks for the welcome PJ!