Firewall help

[gibbons]

I'm in the process of making some changes in my network setup at home, including a new computer for me. Since I'm going to be torn apart for a while I thought it might be a good time to make my network more secure.

My question, oh computer geeks, is this... The only firewall protection I have right now is a router, which I understand is next to nothing. I've run firewall software on my desktop in the past but wasn't happy with it (Black Ice). What is the most effective way to protect my computer from the internet swine? I'm open to buying additional hardware or software.

Thanks.

 

[Keith Lane]

Chip, I run a 4 port Linksys Firewall Router at home and have never gotten hacked (Crosses fingers) . ~~$80 at Best Buy. It's pretty user friendly with an HTML user interface, as are most network devices these days. It's a wired system meaning I don't have a wireless computer around. If you need wireless, I can't offer any suggestions.

 

[LeonardMack]

The hardware router/firewall you have is the best protection from the outside internet. It isn't really neccessary to run software on the computers behind it, unless you are worried about someone on one of those computers (ie. your family) hacking your computer.

Make sure you have changed the "default" password for the firewall. This is probably the most common thing I see which basiscally makes the firewall useless!

If you have wireless acess setup in your home, make sure you take the precautions to secure that (WEP or whatever method you want to use).

 

[Greebo]

The only firewall protection I have right now is a router, which I understand is next to nothing.

Who told you that?

Like others have said, the router is a MAJOR protection. Why? Because the router creates a private network behind it that is inacessable from the outside except for connections that either :
1) Initiate from within your home (presumably because you desired them); or
2) Through openings that you specifically create.

Lets say your ISP assigns your modem/cable modem/digital connection/access point the IP of 100.20.10.41, and this IP is a public IP address. Furthermore, lets say that your computer is directly connected to your connection device. That means that anyone with internet access can try all kinds of nastiness against the address 100.20.10.41 and ONLY the protections installed on your computer will defend you. The inherent protections in Windows are quite faulty, as everyone pretty well knows, and even with Windows Firewall installed (which is better than nothing), the exposure is significant. One exploitable bug in XP discovered by the searching hacker and boom, you're in trouble. See, an IP address isn't a single connection - its actually 65k (and change) potential openings called ports. Some ports are fairly safe, others are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands, and all of them under this configuration are out there, waiting to be scanned for an opening.

Now insert the router.

Your ISP still assigns the address 100.20.10.41 to the first device to connect on your connection, but now that device is the router. The router has 65k ports, just like your computer, but - and here's the kicker - they are ALL closed by default. They only open from inside. Whats more, when your computer turns on, it wakes up and says, "Hello world, whats my IP address?" Before, the answer it got back was 100.20.10.41. NOW, the router kicks back a different address - 192.168.1.100.

192.168.1.100 is your computer's IP address, but that IP address exists ONLY on your side of the firewall. The outside internet can't see it - it never knows it exists (EVEN if you expose ports on the router, the 192 IP is still private). The port scanner can go up against the router to its heart's content but unless you create an opening on the router that links a specific port to your private IP address, your computer is safe from outside attack.

Your PC *IS* still vulnerable from connections you initiate, of course. If you open your freshly installed, un patched IE 6.0 browser and point it at www.hackunown00b.com, your computer creates a connection to the web server which creates a pathway for the server to turn around and talk to your computer directly. That, however, is because you opened the connection, and no router is going to protect against that.

Here endeth the lesson from Security: The book of Routers: Chapter 1, versus 1 to 100.

 

[CJones]

Here endeth the lesson from Security: The book of Routers: Chapter 1, versus 1 to 100.

Aaaaaaaaaamen.

 

[mikea]

Your router IS a firewall and a NAT gateway and a web server and ...
as others have said it's just what you need.

If you're want to get a new one just check for it have SPI, Stateful Packet Inspection. About all made in the last few years do.

That device will kepp out threats that come unsolicited from the outside world. That means that if any new Windows worms like Sassser or Blaster or Code Red or Mellssa starts wreaking havoc you won't get it unless you bring it in from the outside. That is by teh way, one way you can get burned. When these come around yyou have to be careful not to connect to a chewy "clean" corporate network where they're having a ball going from PC to PC.

You should see how many probes are coming in every minute. It's worse than the local church group knocking on your door. At least they go away.

What running Firewall software on your PC gets you is protection against malware that is on your PC and is initating connections. You can be sure that most of ethose nice folks hosting spam bots are behind firewalls. The bots are going from the inside out and asking for spam work to do and that traffic looks normal to a firewall.

Or you could just get a Mac and not have to worry about any of that Windows fun. Macs come with firewall software, too.

 

[jason]

Or you could just get a Mac and not have to worry about any of that Windows fun. Macs come with firewall software, too.

Funny, I was just about to post a "Insert Mike telling you how a mac will solve this problem here -->" post, but I see you beat me to it.

Good thing macs are immune to this stuff...oh...except for the 22 vulnerabilities that they patched today...

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2266

 

[mikea]

Funny, I was just about to post a "Insert Mike telling you how a mac will solve this problem here -->" post, but I see you beat me to it.

Good thing macs are immune to this stuff...oh...except for the 22 vulnerabilities that they patched today...

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2266

I was going to to beat yopu to that but I got tired of typing.

Find one Mac system that suffered an exploit of any of these. Find 10 Windows systems that are not hosting some kind of malware. See the difference?

Find one Mac system that has suffered a security exploit.

"Yeah, but that only because there are so few Macs it's not worth effort to attack."

Ok, the most common web server by far is Apache/Linux. Why are all of the vulnerabilities on web servers on Windows and IIS?

Alow me to give you a hint:

mike-MacbookPro:~ mike$ ls > /usr/bin/test
-bash: /usr/bin/test: Permission denied

vs.

C:\Documents and Settings\Mike>dir > c:\windows\test

C:\Documents and Settings\Mike>type c:\windows\test
 Volume in drive C has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is 3CDB-0F68

 Directory of C:\Documents and Settings\Mike

10/28/2006  04:11 PM    <DIR>          .
10/28/2006  04:11 PM    <DIR>          ..
08/06/2006  10:42 AM    <DIR>          Desktop
07/31/2006  07:40 AM    <DIR>          Favorites
10/16/2006  06:03 PM    <DIR>          My Documents
07/05/2006  03:06 AM    <DIR>          Start Menu
07/05/2006  08:52 AM    <DIR>          WINDOWS
               1 File(s)         33,408 bytes
               7 Dir(s)   6,161,907,712 bytes free

C:\Documents and Settings\Mike>

See a difference?

 

[jesse]

Alow me to give you a hint:

mike-MacbookPro:~ mike$ ls > /usr/bin/test
-bash: /usr/bin/test: Permission denied

vs.

C:\Documents and Settings\Mike>dir > c:\windows\test

C:\Documents and Settings\Mike>type c:\windows\test
 Volume in drive C has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is 3CDB-0F68

 Directory of C:\Documents and Settings\Mike

10/28/2006  04:11 PM    <DIR>          .
10/28/2006  04:11 PM    <DIR>          ..
08/06/2006  10:42 AM    <DIR>          Desktop
07/31/2006  07:40 AM    <DIR>          Favorites
10/16/2006  06:03 PM    <DIR>          My Documents
07/05/2006  03:06 AM    <DIR>          Start Menu
07/05/2006  08:52 AM    <DIR>          WINDOWS
               1 File(s)         33,408 bytes
               7 Dir(s)   6,161,907,712 bytes free

C:\Documents and Settings\Mike>

See a difference?

Yeah. I do. You don't know what you are doing.

You are logged in as Mike (an administrator) and you are surprised that you have the authority to access a file you just made as the ADMINISTRATOR Mike? OMFG WINDOWS IS SO INSECURE. IT LETS ADMINISTRATORS MAKE THEIR OWN FILES AND EVEN ACCESS THEM TOO!

OMFG LINUX IS INSECURE TOO. IT DOES THE SAME THING. HOW DARE IT LET YOU ACCESS FILES YOU MADE.

[root@jesseangell jesse]# ls > /usr/bin/lstest
[root@jesseangell jesse]# cat /usr/bin/lstest
count
exim.conf
Maildir
poa
sendEmail-v1.54
sendEmail-v1.54.tar.gz
TCS-EMBSYS1.pdf
test
test2
tour.wmv
www
[root@jesseangell jesse]#

You are logged into your Windows computer as an Administrator. su to root on that macbook and I bet you it'll let you do it too!

Oh BTW. Check this out.

C:\>dir > C:\windows\test
Access is denied.

C:\>

Wow. I must know how to setup a Windows machine.

I administer Linux servers for a living and use Mac's on a regular basis. I'm not about to say either are the solution to everyone's problems. It's the typical "Mac Hippie" attitude that just makes Apple look bad.

 

[mikea]

I administer Linux servers for a living and use Mac's on a regular basis. I'm not about to say either are the solution to everyone's problems. It's the typical "Mac Hippie" attitude that just makes Apple look bad.

Jesse, you don't wanna go there. I was admin on Unix and installed Windows systems a decade before you were in utero. I had Windows 1.2 (not 3.1). No. It didn't work.

I want to see you run anything on Windows when you don't have an admin account.

I want to see you find 3 typical home systems where the user is not an administrator. Find one OEM Windows install where the no account account is not an admin.

Find one Windows XP install CD that sets up the user to not be an admin - or even offers the option. I guess that stoopid Microsoft company that makes those CDs doesn't know what it's doing.

We are talking desktops, buddy. Dells with Windows XP don't ship set up to log into Active Directory.

I had to support Macs under System 7 and hated them. The hippies we screamed at where the ones at Berekely when we had to first deal with BSD on Suns

 

[tdager]

Show me a Mac that can play games and supports 98% of any kind of software I want.

It cannot be done.

Also, my home systems are as secure as your Mac is, I can gaurantee that, and I go to some not-so-friendly sites as part of my work (I am an Information Risk Consultant).

Again...I use and like Linux (Suse) for what it is, and I can appreciate some of the strengths of the Mac, but neither of them (nor Windows) are the end-all be-all in operating systems. That one has yet to be invented!

 

[jesse]

Jesse, you don't wanna go there. I was admin on Unix and installed Windows systems a decade before you were in utero. I had Windows 1.2 (not 3.1). No. It didn't work.

Technology changes. Quick. You should try it.

I want to see you run anything on Windows when you don't have an admin account.

Hmm. Want me to setup a remote session so you can watch me do it? Or is my word good enough. Because you can.

I want to see you find 3 typical home systems where the user is not an administrator.

My Grandma. My Little Sister. My windows computer.

Find one OEM Windows install where the no account account is not an admin.

Just one? I work for an OEM system builder. I can find you a lot more.

Find one Windows XP install CD that sets up the user to not be an admin.

That might be hard. But if you are installing Windows from scratch it is expected that you don't be stupid.

We are talking desktops, buddy. Dells with Windows XP don't ship set up to log into Active Directory.

Actually. You can order systems from Dell setup to log into Active Directory. I've done it.

 

[gibbons]

Looks like everyone agrees that if I change the password on my router that I've got all the protection I need.

I really do appreciate the feedback.

(OK, now I get to use the reset button on the router because apparently I had already changed the password. Unfortunately, I didn't write it on the monitor with the rest of my passwords so I can't remember what I changed it to.)

 

[jason]

Mike, I'm not a windows lover. That's never been my point in giving you a hard time. My point today was (and always has been) that we get it. You like macs. You think everybody should own one. We really get it. However, it's not answer to every single technical problem that everybody has on this board. Though, somehow you find a way to slip it in to every technical conversation.

Chip wasn't asking about computers, he was asking about network security.

Oh, and one last thing…then I'll shut up for a while.

This is the second time that I have see you write "don't go there" in response to somebody questioning your overall authority on something technical. Then you launch into how you've been doing this since before the dinosaurs went extinct. Well, Mike, with all due respect, I make a living at computers as well...and a good one at that. Just because you've been doing it longer than I (or Jesse) doesn't mean we don't know what we're talking about. I run servers that use more bandwidth in one day than most everybody on this board could chew through in months. Please stop trying to convince me that I don't know what I'm talking about. It's really disrespectful and I'm really tired of it.

But, like I said, I was just giving you a hard time. Don't get all worked up about it.

 

[mikea]

Show me a Mac that can play games and supports 98% of any kind of software I want.

It cannot be done.

Sure it can. You just run Windows in a Virtual Machine under Mac OS and replace it when its gets dirty like celebs do with their socks.

My Windows installs are clean, too.

Back to my point. The majority of Windows home desktop installs are infected with crapware. No Mac OS X installs are infected.

Those spammers controlling tens of thousands of bots on Windows systems are having an easy time.

 

[jason]

Looks like everyone agrees that if I change the password on my router that I've got all the protection I need.

I really do appreciate the feedback.

(OK, now I get to use the reset button on the router because apparently I had already changed the password. Unfortunately, I didn't write it on the monitor with the rest of my passwords so I can't remember what I changed it to.)

Yeah, that's really 90% of what you need. The other 10% consists of good spam and virus protection, etc. You could get more paranoid than that, but it shouldn't be that big of a deal if you have Automatic Updates enabled and you don't wander too far off the path going to quesitonable websites.

Oh, one more thing that many people could do that would help is to upgrade from Windows Update to Microsoft Update. That way your computer will automatically download Office updates (and updates for other MS software automatically). Then turn it on "automaticlly install" and never look back.

 

[LeonardMack]

EVERY time someone brings up a virus, router or network security it turns into a Mac-vs-Windows arguement! It is bad enough I have to put up with the cheesy commercial on TV - but I gotta watch it here to?!

 

[jason]

EVERY time someone brings up a virus, router or network security it turns into a Mac-vs-Windows arguement! It is bad enough I have to put up with the cheesy commercial on TV - but I gotta watch it here to?!

Hey, I'm with you. Let's focus on the subject at hand, that's all I'm saying as well.

 

[rpadula]

The best thing about having your router do the firewalling is that the packets never make it to your PC. No wasting CPU cycles dropping packets into the bit bucket.


-Rich

 

[tdager]

Sure it can. You just run Windows in a Virtual Machine under Mac OS and replace it when its gets dirty like celebs do with their socks.

My Windows installs are clean, too.

Back to my point. The majority of Windows home desktop installs are infected with crapware. No Mac OS X installs are infected.

Those spammers controlling tens of thousands of bots on Windows systems are having an easy time.

Hahahahaha...yeah right bro, quit drinking the coolaide.

There is NO WAY that you will play FSX, or Quake 4, or F.E.A.R., or any other high-end graphics intensive game in a virtual session. No way, no how (and I am sure you know that).

OS virtualization is an amazing thing, but it does have its limitations.

BTW...since it is always fun poking a stick in a beehive , lets both walk into Walmart, or Game Stop, or Best Buy and walk out with the software we want from there (or can get). I am sure I will get much, much more then you!

 

[AirBaker]

Sure it can. You just run Windows in a Virtual Machine under Mac OS and replace it when its gets dirty like celebs do with their socks.

My Windows installs are clean, too.

Back to my point. The majority of Windows home desktop installs are infected with crapware. No Mac OS X installs are infected.

Those spammers controlling tens of thousands of bots on Windows systems are having an easy time.

I've always loved the argument that since it hasn't been done, it can't be done. If you're trying to reach a target audience, why go for the small population?

If the world ran Mac OS and the PC was the outcast, it would be the other way around.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Show me a Mac that can play games and supports 98% of any kind of software I want.

It cannot be done.

What's the difference between a Core Duo based Windows machine that says "Dell" on the case and a Core Duo based Windows machine that says "Apple" on the case?

These days it is quite possible to run a Mac without running Mac OS. There are several ways to do so:

1) Boot Camp. This is Apple's helpful utility to set up a dual-boot system. Pluses: There's no difference between this machine and any old Windows machine, if it's booted into Windows. (Wait, is that a plus? ) Minuses: You have to buy a copy of Windows, and you have to reboot to switch operating systems.

2) Parallels. This allows you to run a Windows virtual machine. Pluses: No need to reboot to switch back and forth. Minuses: You probably will get some performance hit from trying to run TWO OS's at the same time, but not nearly as bad as having to translate at the processor level like before Apple switched to Intel. Also, you still have to buy a copy of windows.

3) CrossOver. This is an offshoot of Wine (not ) and lets you run Windows apps almost as if they were Mac apps. Pluses: You don't have to give M$ any money, because you're not actually running Windows. Minuses: Presumably there's going to be some incompatibilities, as there is with anything that's reverse-engineered like this.

I use and like Linux (Suse) for what it is, and I can appreciate some of the strengths of the Mac, but neither of them (nor Windows) are the end-all be-all in operating systems. That one has yet to be invented!

Ya got that right. Us Mac-heads just like Mac OS X because it is the closest to perfect.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

There is NO WAY that you will play FSX, or Quake 4, or F.E.A.R., or any other high-end graphics intensive game in a virtual session. No way, no how (and I am sure you know that).

So, ya reboot into Windows-only using Boot Camp.

Or, you get some work done. Who needs freakin' games anyway? Get a PlayStation or something.

BTW...since it is always fun poking a stick in a beehive , lets both walk into Walmart, or Game Stop, or Best Buy and walk out with the software we want from there (or can get). I am sure I will get much, much more then you!

I don't know how you figure that. I can now run all the software you can, PLUS all the Mac-specific software.

Besides... If the machine does what you want, who cares if there are 40,000 titles you won't use or 50,000,000 titles you won't use? (Had to count the viruses ) I use the web, e-mail, M$ Office (though I use Apple's Keynote these days instead of PowerPoint even though I have both), chat, Skype, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand, QuickBooks Pro, and that's what I have sitting in my Dock for immediate opening (lots of other stuff I don't use much).

Now, most of the above is available on both platforms. The "iLife" stuff isn't available on Windows except for iTunes, but I'm sure there's software out there to do the same things on Windows. (it just isn't free ).

So, who cares? Both would work, but using a Windows machine and getting all loaded up and bogged down with crapware gives me a headache.

 

[jason]

Somehow I knew you'd chime in here.

Listen, my friend, not every single Windows machine is home to malware. Does anybody want to come scan mine? I'll give somebody $100 cold hard cash if they find some.

I repeat. I'm not a Windows fanboy. It just so happens that it is easiest for me to do my job if I run it as my primary OS. I much prefer linux and I spend most of my day using my Windows laptop to SSH into my linux boxen strewn around the country. Hell, I even have a Macbook that is all mine that I keep at the office and will bring home with me every once in a while. There really isn't anything wrong with it. I don't drink the kool-aid, but I like using it just fine.

I'm probably one of the very few people on the board that has run VMWare on Linux and Windows. Boot Camp and Parallels on the Mac. Hell, I've even run Virtual PC on a Mac and on Windows (plus MS Virtual Server, too). I've run both Linux and Windows on x86 and x86_64. I've run many Linux and Windows on 486s through Xeons and Core 2 Duos. I've run Linux and Windows on Athlons through Opterons. I've run linux on Macs since Yellow Dog. I've run OS 8-X. I'm comfortable with all of them.

I work with each of the three major operating sytems each and every day (on a multitude of architectures), and I could run any of them as my primary workstation and not think twice about it.

I will also repeat (there must be an echo in this thread) that my biggest issue is the thought that any and all technical issues could be solved if the people with those issues would just come to their senses and use a Mac. Just because you love it doesn't mean that everybody would. I know it's hard for those of you with the big red kool-aid mustches to fathom, but it's really true.

If everybody dropped Windows and switched tomorrow the world would only be malware free for about 2-3 hours...which is exactly how long it would take your average spam purveyor to retool their arsenals to focus on the new herd of sheep connecting their unpatched computers to the internet and clicking on whatever link that that e-mail from "their bank" told them to.

Chip asked about firewalls and network security, yet somehow that question was tied to Windows and he was told that he would be better off with a Mac. I just don't understand why that was.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Listen, my friend, not every single Windows machine is home to malware. Does anybody want to come scan mine? I'll give somebody $100 cold hard cash if they find some.

Yes, but you are a professional.

The point is more that a non-professional can do a lot better out of the box with a Mac. A professional (or hobbyist geek) can make darn near any system run really well. But, 90% of the world cannot.

I do agree that this isn't really the right thread for the argument. Plop the router in, make sure it's locked down by default, have fun, and just know that there are certain things (ie malware) that it does not stop, but that those things are a result of your clicking somewhere you probably shouldn't.

I'm probably one of the very few people on the board that has run VMWare on Linux and Windows. Boot Camp and Parallels on the Mac. Hell, I've even run Virtual PC on a Mac and on Windows (plus MS Virtual Server, too). I've run both Linux and Windows on x86 and x86_64. I've run many Linux and Windows on 486s through Xeons and Core 2 Duos. I've run Linux and Windows on Athlons through Opterons. I've run linux on Macs since Yellow Dog. I've run OS 8-X. I'm comfortable with all of them.

OK, I give!

I bet I could kick your butt at AppleSoft Basic though.

I've been a Mac user since 1986 (Mac Plus, System 3.2, Finder 5.3 - back in the day when the version numbers weren't the same!). I've used BSD, Digital Unix, AIX (IBM), and LinuxPPC. I've reluctantly used Windows versions all the way back to 3.1. I can work with it at a consultant level but I've done enough with it to truly hate it.

I know it's hard for those of you with the big red kool-aid mustches to fathom, but it's really true.

You've gotta help me man, I'm stuck in Steve's reality distortion field!

I know it's not the be-all end-all solution for everything - But it is the best platform for more than the 6% or so that do have it. That's why Mac users tend to become Mac advocates after making the switch.

Chip asked about firewalls and network security, yet somehow that question was tied to Windows and he was told that he would be better off with a Mac. I just don't understand why that was.

Less malware, I think. From a purely network perspective - Well, the network doesn't know what kind of computer it is, only that it's got open ports... But ya know, they do call it a MAC address.

 

[jason]

Yes, but you are a professional.

The point is more that a non-professional can do a lot better out of the box with a Mac. A professional (or hobbyist geek) can make darn near any system run really well. But, 90% of the world cannot.

I would challenge this assumption and would be interested to see if you can find any semi-recent facts to back it up.

As somebody that manages a Help Desk (in a company where 10% of the workstations are Macs) it has been my experience that a computer illiterate person can't run a Mac any better than they can a Windows box.

Alright, I'll shut up and this thread can return to it's regularly scheduled question. I know better than to every try to talk a Machead down off of their ivory tower.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I would challenge this assumption and would be interested to see if you can find any semi-recent facts to back it up.

As somebody that manages a Help Desk (in a company where 10% of the workstations are Macs) it has been my experience that a computer illiterate person can't run a Mac any better than they can a Windows box.

Whoops... Bad choice of words on my part. By "do better" I didn't mean run the thing, I meant they'll be more secure and less susceptible to being attacked by viruses and malware. As an example, there was a recent post by "KennyFlys" about how to make IE more secure. It's something a pro would know to do, but your average joe is going to open up IE and happily begin clicking away and get infected with all sorts of crap. IMHO, a computer should not require any additional configuration out of the box to deal with said crap.

As for operation... They're fairly close in many respects, and still a world apart in others. (Can you say "plug and play"? ) But, that's not the point I was getting at in the previous post.

 

[Greebo]

Do you guys not understand the simple, singly largest reason Windows computers are so prone to vulnerabilities being exploited?

Because its the singly most widely used operating system in use!

Writers of malware/spyware/etc for windows outnumber the writers of malware/spyware/etc for mac by the same ratio that windows machines outnumber mac machines. Microsoft's website is by far and large the most attacked website on the internet, simply because its such a big target and so many people obsess themselves with hating their success.

As the mac gets more popular, it will have its weaknesses found and exploited at increasing rates as well.

Personally, I think the mac users are being kinda short sighted here - you keep talking people into using your favorite and you're gonna end up killing the goose that lays the golden egg.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Do you guys not understand the simple, singly largest reason Windows computers are so prone to vulnerabilities being exploited?

Because its the singly most widely used operating system in use!

It certainly gets attacked more, but it's also an easy target. Don't you think that some stupid little geek would LOVE to be the first one to cause problems on a Mac? It should be easy, right? Heck, nobody even bothers running a virus scanner on the Mac. There are enough Mac-haters out there that if it was as easy as hacking Windows, it'd have been done more than once...

Personally, I think the mac users are being kinda short sighted here - you keep talking people into using your favorite and you're gonna end up killing the goose that lays the golden egg.

The Mac will never be number 1. There. I said it.

Does that mean we have nothing to worry about?

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Your PC *IS* still vulnerable from connections you initiate, of course. If you open your freshly installed, un patched IE 6.0 browser and point it at www.hackunown00b.com, your computer creates a connection to the web server which creates a pathway for the server to turn around and talk to your computer directly.

Good explanation, Chuck. I want to start a poll... how many of you clicked that link??

 

[gprellwitz]

Okay, is it time yet to create a Tech Spin Zone?

Maybe we can discuss vi vs. emacs!

 

[jason]

Okay, is it time yet to create a Tech Spin Zone?

Maybe we can discuss vi vs. emacs!

Oh, no you di-ent! Now you're REALLY going to get me going!!!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Okay, is it time yet to create a Tech Spin Zone?

Maybe we can discuss vi vs. emacs!

vi sucks. emacs must be better, because of the "Macs" part.

emacs = Eighty Megs And Constantly Swapping

How about elm vs. pine, more vs. less, Linux vs. Unix, GIMP vs. Photoshop, Red Hat vs. Suse vs. Ubuntu, and Akiva vs. vBulletin.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Good explanation, Chuck. I want to start a poll... how many of you clicked that link??

I didn't click that link. I'm curious, but not stupid. I miss out a lot on the postings here because people just give a link I won't click to because I don't recognize it as being safe. I wish people would give a quick synopsis with their link.

As for the Mac/PC debate, the first computer I used had magnetic core memory & teletype entry (see the Andromeda strain movie- those teletypes). I guess that gives me more experience than most here . When the Macs started being popular (early 90's), I stopped using them because they were veritable cesspools of viruses. Now that Windows is popular, it gets hit.

Getting back to the thread. Keep your operating system and antivirus updated and put a password on your router.

Most importantly, don't fall for the human engineering stuff. For example, don't click on those ads for a free dinner & give your e-mail out- I know people who did & are still getting tons of spam.

 

[jesse]

Maybe we can discuss vi vs. emacs!

vi

elm vs. pine

pine

more vs. less

less

Linux vs. Unix

Linux

GIMP vs. Photoshop

Photoshop

Red Hat vs. Suse vs. Ubuntu

Ubuntu & Redhat

Akiva vs. vBulletin.

vBulletin

 

[ScottM]

it has been my experience that a computer illiterate person can't run a Mac any better than they can a Windows box.

I'll agree with that. But since buying my computer illiterate mom a MAC to replace her PC I have seen calls to me (her personal help desk) drop from a couple a month to one this whole year. She has not figured out interesting ways to mess up the Mac. The one call I did get was to tell me the computer was dead and it would not turn on. I asked her to check and see if it was plugged in. She responded that she was not an idiot and of course it was plugged in. This was a just a couple of weeks ago so when I got here to ehr house I decided to check in on the computer. A quick look at it and I noticed it was not plugged in. Problem solved!