Find a hole in this squall line!

Ted DuPuis said:
Complacent is the Mooney I lectured on behalf of ATC who wanted to fly into a squall line at an altitude which would've put him right in the storm.

Dodging thunderstorms or otherwise dealing with them to get around/through a line isn't being complacent if you know what you're doing and are careful about it.



You can dodge the cells in general visually so long as you maintain VMC. The embedded storm bit can be the interesting one. Without real radar (not XM), it's not a particularly good idea.
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Ted, not saying I completely disagree with you and Henning - your experience level is much higher than mine, but DAL 191 was in VMC. They could see the storm clouds. And IIRC, they weren't flying through them, they were flying near them.

Different scenario than the sqaul line depicted in this thread, but maybe that is more my concern. While I am dodging the showers that I can see, what is preventing a cloud directly in front of me from choosing that moment in time to kick my butt?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Ted, not saying I completely disagree with you and Henning - your experience level is much higher than mine, but DAL 191 was in VMC. They could see the storm clouds. And IIRC, they weren't flying through them, they were flying near them.
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I'm not familiar with the incident, but note that every day there's a thunderstorm, you have aircraft from GA through airliners that get around them safely, even when being very close.

That is not to say it should be shrugged off, quite the opposite. But the point is that it is routinely done safely by all kinds of aircraft.

Different scenario than the sqaul line depicted in this thread, but maybe that is more my concern. While I am dodging the showers that I can see, what is preventing a cloud directly in front of me from choosing that moment in time to kick my butt?
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Absolutely nothing. And, if you play around storms, eventually you'll probably end up closer to one than you want, or in one. Just like if you ride a motorcycle you'll probably drop it, and if you drive a car you'll probably get into a wreck at some point. However, if you handle it properly (like anything else), the risk is low, and this is a routine event.

As you said, your experience level is low. So it is very prudent for you to wait out storms and not attempt to deal with them or, especially cross a squall line. However, with some instruction from someone who is competent in such things, it's very doable safely. I spent several flights with my instructor dodging storms before ever attempting it solo. We went over visual avoidance, on-board radar, XM, and ATC help.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Ted, not saying I completely disagree with you and Henning - your experience level is much higher than mine, but DAL 191 was in VMC. They could see the storm clouds. And IIRC, they weren't flying through them, they were flying near them.
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But they were not in cruise, they were landing where the tolerance for airspeed excursions is a lot less. I appreciate the fact that you should not fly through a thunderstorm. However, it's often possible to pick your way around them with radar or visually. On the other hand I have noticed that ATC will often give everyone a long reroute around areas of thunderstorms because they don't want airplanes deviating all over the place which makes it difficult for them.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Ted, not saying I completely disagree with you and Henning - your experience level is much higher than mine, but DAL 191 was in VMC. They could see the storm clouds. And IIRC, they weren't flying through them, they were flying near them.

Different scenario than the sqaul line depicted in this thread, but maybe that is more my concern. While I am dodging the showers that I can see, what is preventing a cloud directly in front of me from choosing that moment in time to kick my butt?
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It depends on where you are in relationship to the cloud and the wind, especially upper level winds. You can also look at the cloud and see how much energy is in it. As Lance points out, you have to use some common sense here. There are days that GA aircraft don't belong in the air, at least for a few hours. There have been times I've approached a front and said "F-this" and landed and got a room. In the day time I don't necessarily cancel a flight just because of what NEXRAD/XM shows though, I'll go take a look and see what it is. If I think I can scoot through underneath safely I do. I've seen similar things painted and cleared underneath with no problems. Sometimes heading west on a long trip I'll fly up close to the line, land, ask them to stick the plane in a hangar, let the storm pass over me and be out of there again in a couple of hours. At night, I just get a room. No one ever said GA was cheap or convenient....
 
elmetal said:
We like to say there are two kinds of riders: Those who have dropped and those will drop
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There's a third kind: Those who dropped one and lie about it. :ihih:
 
Bob Noel said:
I didn't drop it, I put it slowly and carefully on its side on the grass.
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I know people who buy new bikes that mysteriously gain road rash and limping owners, and swear up and down they never dropped the thing.
 
jesse said:
Not mine..yet.
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True. But yours is really, really shiny... which makes it all the more attractive to the ground.
 
I never "dropped my bike": It just kinna fell away from me a couple times <g>. I knew right where I was going; it just had a mind of it's own. And, once it fell in the asphalt parking parking lot on that stupid Japanese kickstand--real slowly as I watched from inside a building after someone yelled-Hey! Whose bike is that falling over.

After one particularly spectacular fall, I learned what I had done had a name. Guy watched me and helped me up and told me all about it while picking pieces of plastic and other foreign particles from various parts of my body. He said I 'high sided it' or something like that. Didn't practice that anymore much as the guy that came over seemed to be really impressed by it.

Best,

Dave
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
Complacent is the Mooney I lectured on behalf of ATC who wanted to fly into a squall line at an altitude which would've put him right in the storm.

Dodging thunderstorms or otherwise dealing with them to get around/through a line isn't being complacent if you know what you're doing and are careful about it.



You can dodge the cells in general visually so long as you maintain VMC. The embedded storm bit can be the interesting one. Without real radar (not XM), it's not a particularly good idea.
Click to expand...
Some of the worst turbulence encounters I've had were in clear air under dark clouds with no sparks visible. Just avoiding the rain isn't enough.
 
gismo said:
Some of the worst turbulence encounters I've had were in clear air under dark clouds with no sparks visible. Just avoiding the rain isn't enough.
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Correct, and I've had that happen to me a few times, too. However, the absolute worst turbulence I've encountered has been in the winter, and frequently in perfectly clear air for hours at a time.
 
gismo said:
Some of the worst turbulence encounters I've had were in clear air under dark clouds with no sparks visible. Just avoiding the rain isn't enough.
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Amen!

Same here.
 
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