FF dumps

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
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20,353
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west Texas
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Dave Taylor
Here is a vfr question I have had for a while.
Why does atc like to dump you from flight following while flying cross country, and over cities, at exactly the (entry side) edge of cba or cca (class b or c)?
Coming back from Calif last Thur was an excellent example, Nellis had me til my toes were almost dipping into Vegas' airspace then I got the dreaded call. What are they thinking?

Why don't they make the effort to hand-off, especially when it is not busy like Thursday? (he sounded bored and there was not much traffic, I could hear his side of the uhf traffic. Neither was Vegas overly busy).

See, when they dump you, depending on your altitude, you are either going to make a 90 degree turn (our inconvenience) or you are going over the top without talking (their inconvenience).
I was able to get radar advisories through Vegas after all - and it was apparent from the traffic they needed and wanted to be talking to me. So why don't they accomodate it?
Where possible I go ifr but sometimes you want a little freedom.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Why don't they make the effort to hand-off
Click to expand...
How do you know they didn't try, but the next facility refused the handoff? That's what happens on the McGuire/Philly border in New Jersey all the time. The fact that McGuire's workload allows them to handle you doesn't mean Philly's will, too. There's just no way for McGuire to know until they hit the "handoff" button whether Philly will be able to take you, and the boundary is right next to the edge of Philly's B-space. Only way to be sure you'll get handled is to go IFR.
 
Slightly different topic but what about say..DFW and their handling of vfr?
It's common knowledge you don't get D-> anywhere below 18K (barring a few exceptions) so you end up with people not talking to them, above their airspace. I'd think they'd want to be able to talk instead of vectoring around "vfr traffic, indicating 11400 unverified, maneuvering, type unknown". To me, it's like they are ignoring a useful tool.
 
Dave, I've always had seamless handoffs in the Vegas area, whether from ABQ or LA Centers or the local fiefdoms. It may have been some quirk that day, but my experience does not match yours.

One trick might be to ask the controller a few minutes before the airspace boundary whether you can expect a handoff to the next facility.

Jon
 
One trick
Click to expand...

Thanks Jon, I was also thinking of ways to preempt the dump.
Something like, "What altitude will make the next handoff easiest for you, sir?" (not that altitude is an issue)

Maybe upon initial radar contact I will add "Handoff to next controller mandatory" :D
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
It's common knowledge you don't get D-> anywhere below 18K (barring a few exceptions) so you end up with people not talking to them, above their airspace. I'd think they'd want to be able to talk instead of vectoring around "vfr traffic, indicating 11400 unverified, maneuvering, type unknown". To me, it's like they are ignoring a useful tool.
Click to expand...
They don't care about you there because no one is vectoring a jet airliner over DFW at 11,400. If the airplane is going to land within the B, they will have vectored it into the B and descended it well before it is near the airport. If the plane isn't landing there.....it is going to be a whole lot higher than 11.4!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Thanks Jon, I was also thinking of ways to preempt the dump.
Something like, "What altitude will make the next handoff easiest for you, sir?" (not that altitude is an issue)
Click to expand...
Sometimes it is though, as when the next facility is an ARTCC that can't see you below xxxx MSL in that area.

When I'm going north through Saginaw's airspace, I always raise the issue early, and let them know I'm going to be at 6500 or 8500 by the time I'm leaving their airspace, if I'm not there already.
 
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