FBO Insurance Subrogation...

[dans2992]

So, I currently own a Piper Comanche with 2 other partners. I am looking at possibly renting an aircraft from an FBO from time to time should my plane be in the shop, or in use by one of the other partners.

What is the best way to approach an FBO about getting listed on their insurance policy, or obtaining a waiver of subrogation from their insurance company? I have heard 3rd hand of this being done in the past, but is it realistic?

Basically, for the number of hours per year I might be flying the rental, it's not worth it to shell out $1000-$1500 for the amount of renter's insurance I would need to cover the hull if something happened. Since the plane is already insured, I would think getting a waiver of subrogation, or being named on the policy would come much cheaper than going out and getting my own renter's policy. I'm not concerned about covering the deductibles, etc, I just don't want to be on the hook for $100-$150k should something catastrophic happen.

Also, can anyone cite an actual case where an FBO's policy subrogated against the renter? Does this actually happen, or is it just a scare tactic to sell renter's insurance?

--Dan

 

[jbarrass]

Check your Comanche's owners insurance. Mine covers me if I'm in a rental. I think it is pretty common.

 

[denverpilot]

Check your Comanche's owners insurance. Mine covers me if I'm in a rental. I think it is pretty common.

Some underwriters are starting to drop this perk to shave a few bucks off of the policies.

Ours did, which we didn't mind, but we noticed it when we got re-quoted recently. We discussed and had an option to spend a few bucks more for it and decided not to as a group.

 

[wabower]

What incentive does the FBO enjoy in return for renting a plane a few hours per year to some guy who's not a regular rental customer and is just looking for cheaper? Are you a good fuel or maintenance customer for whom he might be incentivized to make a concession?

So, I currently own a Piper Comanche with 2 other partners. I am looking at possibly renting an aircraft from an FBO from time to time should my plane be in the shop, or in use by one of the other partners.

What is the best way to approach an FBO about getting listed on their insurance policy, or obtaining a waiver of subrogation from their insurance company? I have heard 3rd hand of this being done in the past, but is it realistic?

Basically, for the number of hours per year I might be flying the rental, it's not worth it to shell out $1000-$1500 for the amount of renter's insurance I would need to cover the hull if something happened. Since the plane is already insured, I would think getting a waiver of subrogation, or being named on the policy would come much cheaper than going out and getting my own renter's policy. I'm not concerned about covering the deductibles, etc, I just don't want to be on the hook for $100-$150k should something catastrophic happen.

Also, can anyone cite an actual case where an FBO's policy subrogated against the renter? Does this actually happen, or is it just a scare tactic to sell renter's insurance?

--Dan

 

[poadeleted20]

Just ask to see the policy. There may be a waiver of subrogation already. Combine that with a non-owned rider to yours, and you may already be covered or have a very affordable option.

 

[dans2992]

I will ask to see the policy. It's unfortunate that when you bring up this topic with FBOs these days, they simply throw a "renters insurance" brochure at you.

I would be willing to pay for a waiver of subrogation if it were reasonable...

 

[schmookeeg]

What is the best way to approach an FBO about getting listed on their insurance policy, or obtaining a waiver of subrogation from their insurance company? I have heard 3rd hand of this being done in the past, but is it realistic?

Also, can anyone cite an actual case where an FBO's policy subrogated against the renter? Does this actually happen, or is it just a scare tactic to sell renter's insurance?

For the first point, I would offer them $250 to add you as named insured for a 12 month period. This will defray any costs they have, but in my experience, adding a named is either impossible, or it will be free. The $250 gives them an incentive to pick up the phone and find out which it is, and it's cheaper than renter's insurance for full hull coverage if they take the deal. If you are impossible to name on their policy, no harm done.

For the second, I can quote the opposite case. We had two separate claims where the renter was self-admittedly at fault, one painfully, face-palmingly, ridiculously so -- and both appeared to have net worth to cover the claims (< 40k in both cases) many many times over. We demanded our insurance subrogate -- our insurance refused, citing "bad faith" concerns. They even gave one of them a $75k check to help daub a bloodied nose from his pilot-induced cessna off-roading.

Please don't use the above as a data point to not get a subrogation waiver if one is available, but I have never heard of a case where it would have prevented action.

$0.02

- Mike

 

[weilke]

Check your Comanche's owners insurance. Mine covers me if I'm in a rental. I think it is pretty common.

Depends on the insurance company, and the applicable endorsements for the respective policy.

Avemcos policy is written in a way that extends non-owned coverage only if the holder of the policy is a natural person. So if you own the plane in a partnership with everyone on the registration, you have non-owned coverage for other flying activities. If you own the plane through an entity (corp, llc, trust), you dont have such coverage.
Anyone needs to read their proposed policy, some of the endorsements we are all used to may just not show up one day but are available if you just ask for them (e.g. things like open pilot warrranties).

 

[PPC1052]

Just ask to see the policy.

But be careful. You may think you have all of the policy when you really do not. There are three parts to an insurance policy: 1) the declarations page, 2) the body, and 3) the endorsements. You cannot determine what a policy really says unless you have all three parts. The endorsements often redact or completely re-write entire sections of the policy.