Fatal accidents last year in Aviation ?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Southpaw, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. Southpaw

    Southpaw Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    Just read this report .
    Tom Krisher ASSOCIATED PRESS DETROIT ? The new chairman of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board wants governments and businesses to change the way they look at highway safety, considering the whole system rather than individual driver behavior.

    Jennifer Homendy, nominated by President Joe Biden earlier this year, said such an approach works in aviation, where there were no U.S. fatalities last year.
     
  2. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

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    Maybe scheduled commercial operations, but certainly not GA as a whole.

    Granted people don't treat driving like we do aviation. Every accident is not picked apart on the news. 30,000+ die on the highways each year, and its rarely talked about. A fatal airplane crash easily makes regional news, and sometimes even national news.
     
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  3. jrollf

    jrollf Pre-Flight

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    Imagine the outcry there would be if getting a driver's license was just like getting a private license.

    Ohh, and the pizza delivery guy... you need a comercial drivers license and your car has to be inspected by a certified mechanic every 1,000 miles

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
  4. GaryM

    GaryM Line Up and Wait

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    Nothing wrong with looking at the whole system in order to improve safety, but I hope she doesn't lose track of the fact that one is a whole lot more likely to get killed by individual driver behavior than by any kind of system failure.
     
  5. Rich Holt

    Rich Holt Pre-Flight

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    I think maybe the enormous amount of bad individual driver behavior constitutes failure of the "whole system." Bad driving habits are not only subjective, but they are also practically endorsed. Commercials for vehicles laud their ability to violate every traffic law, although they are required to put a disclaimer that says the "driver" should not be engaging in these activities. I've been driving for more than two decades now without a single ticket, because I agreed to follow the traffic laws in exchange for my privilege to operate a motor vehicle on public roadways, yet my insurances rates are the same as the someone who has had their license revoked for too many "points." So, yeah, the whole system is broken is a valid point.
     
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  6. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    "professional driver on closed course"

    Insurance has always infuriated me. It's a gamble and the house always wins

    No tickets or moving violations, or accidents I have caused, here either
     
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  7. Rich Holt

    Rich Holt Pre-Flight

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    I was t-boned while riding my motorcycle in college. The other guy had to cross 4 traffic lanes to nail me. Mad skillz.
     
  8. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    If you couldn't see a guy gunning for you 4 lanes over you don't belong on a bike.
     
  9. Daleandee

    Daleandee Pattern Altitude

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    ... and get a driver's review with a certified driving instructor every two years at a cost you won't like ...
     
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  10. GaryM

    GaryM Line Up and Wait

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    Your car insurance rates shouldn't be the same as the bad driver.'s..one's driving record has a huge impact on insurance rates.
     
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  11. PPC1052

    PPC1052 Final Approach

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    ... and three parallel parking jobs in 90 days or you can't carry passengers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  12. Rich Holt

    Rich Holt Pre-Flight

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    I was waiting at a stoplight. Could not move. Judgemental much?
     
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  13. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

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    If driving was regulated like flying, I think we can all agree there would be greater safety, but at what cost and social response.

    - Require regular medical evaluations
    - Driving Review every two years
    - Not allowed to carry passengers at night unless you've logged at least three night trips in the last 90 days
    - Vehicles inspected annually (not all states do)
    - Random stops to check vehicle and documentation (Not currently permitted by constitution, yet ramp checks are a thing?)
    - Simple violations result in suspensions, re-testing or revocations of license.
    - Not allowed to operate a larger vehicle without a type rating and recurrent training
    - Insurance companies required type specific experience, training, and checkouts. Buy a new car, have to get initial training.

    The list could go on and on, kind of fun.
     
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  14. jrollf

    jrollf Pre-Flight

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    Just think of all the new jobs it would create!

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  15. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route PoA Supporter

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    As driverless vehicles become practical in the next (10?) years, placing stricter limits on driver's licenses becomes less burdensome, as alternative transportation will be available. It may take another generation, but it will happen.
     
  16. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    If you are waiting at a stoplight you keep the bike in gear in case someone does something stupid. You always have a plan. Always room to move somewhere for a bike. You don't belong on one.
     
  17. azpilot

    azpilot Line Up and Wait

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    That's not true. Car insurers monitor driver's license records and increase the rates of people that have tickets.

    My rates finally just got back down to "normal" after my wife backed into my car in the driveway about five years ago.
     
  18. azpilot

    azpilot Line Up and Wait

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    I think it's completely unreasonable to regulate cars like airplanes. That wouldn't make any sense at all. It's no big deal to get in a rental car and drive around a state I've never been to. It's not a big deal because if I take a turn at 5mph too slow my car doesn't fall out of the sky, crash and kill me.
     
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  19. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Seems like that should’ve eyed her rates, not yours. ;)
     
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  20. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What regulations make that not possible in airplanes?
     
  21. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    You don’t have to report every little fender bender, might be better off just to pay for the repairs yourself in some cases, especially if you can do the repairs yourself.
     
  22. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route

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    Don’t give them any ideas.
     
  23. azpilot

    azpilot Line Up and Wait

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    Yes, in hindsight, reporting this incident to insurance was a really bad decision.
     
  24. Kansas Flyer

    Kansas Flyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Ever consider that he didn't see him coming? I always wear a helmet but they can cut down on peripheral vision and make it harder to see something coming from the side.

    BTW congrats on your self appointment as high commissioner of motorcycle safety. I'm sure you'll save a lot of lives running around and telling random people you don't know that they don't belong on their bike. :rolleyes2:
     
  25. nrpetersen

    nrpetersen Line Up and Wait

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    I think there could be justification for more stringent rules for automobile drivers as the proximity and other interface elements to other vehicles and pedestrians is so much greater.

    Drunk airplane pilot vs drunk car driver? I think the drunk car driver is more of a public hazard.
     
  26. azpilot

    azpilot Line Up and Wait

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    You don't need a special endorsement to rent a car with 201 horsepower.

    But I understand what you're getting at. My ASEL certificate allows me to fly a Cherokee, even though I passed my checkride in a 172. I was more thinking of the checkout requirements that FBO's have to rent planes. Those are insurance driven, not FAR driven.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  27. jrollf

    jrollf Pre-Flight

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    Truth be told, developing driverless cars is hard... largely because of human drivers. Ban human drivers and AI for driverless cars can get a lot simpler.

    Not saying I want this... the same argument could be made of aircraft.

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  28. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I wouldn't use the term "simpler"... less complex, sure, but not simpler.

    Given the vast spectrum of roads across the USA, we aren't close to driverless cars that can handle everything from coast to coast.

    Nevermind the problems of high assurance software development (and security).
     
  29. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You need a special endorsement to drive a motorcycle. I believe additional endorsements or license levels are required in some states to drive a large RV.

    I suspect that the insurance requirements for checkout wouldn’t be so strict if we actually taught about flying, not just flying a 172. Self checkouts really aren’t that tough if you’re willing to do a little study and can correlate what you know to another airplane.
     
  30. jrollf

    jrollf Pre-Flight

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    This is what worries me most. In the "utopia" of driverless cars that are all networked together to be "more efficient and safer", a bad actor/terroist figures out his to hack the system and creates mass causulty accidents all over the place at the same time, or mass gridlock brining cities to a vault.

    I have no faith in the industry that they will be willing to spend the money on the continious, never ending, job of constantly upgrading software and firmware of "old" models to protect them from newly found exploits in the future. They will be like mobile phone companies, security updates for a few years... then tell you to buy/lease a brand new car and trash the old one as it won't have any real value.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
  31. azpilot

    azpilot Line Up and Wait

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    Completely agree. But my self checkout in my VW golf rental car is really only a few seconds. And I literally can sit in the seat, turn the key can go. It would be incredibly foolish to do that in an airplane you've never flown before.

    My only point here is that trying to compare cars and planes is like trying to compare apples and oranges. They're just not the same. I understand the desire to do it, and it makes for an interesting discussion on an airplane forum. And I'd even be supportive of making it more difficult to get a DL. (Here is AZ the official DL written test can be taken at home on the internet, and the driving "practical'" test is about 5 minutes.) But getting a DL should not be the same as getting a pilot certificate.
     
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  32. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route

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    Don't mind him, we all pretty much ignore him.
     
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  33. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    You are so full of it bro, it’s actually funny.
     
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  34. MrAnderson

    MrAnderson Pre-Flight

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    NTSB had an easy year… pilot error? Nope. Covid.

    … sorry had to
     
  35. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    State highways and drivers couldn’t handle the bureaucracy the FAA provides…..let alone the onerous safety measures.
     
  36. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    We don't need any goofy quick fix think tank to play with traffic safety. Fatalities have been generally trending down forever, because of better automotive design. Maybe once the technology gets to the point where they don't run over as many firemen, and people figure out that it makes sense to actually hold software developers liable for their errors just like engineers, we can mandate that drunks and people caught texting while driving have to buy self-driving cars. Until then, though, things aren't too bad.

    Any public official comparing commercial aviation safety to personal motor vehicle safety is either an idiot, or has a hidden agenda. My bet is that it's the latter. So is it the software industry looking for government standards for self driving cars, to pre-empt the reaction to people figuring out that if the car is driving the car, the manufacturer is responsible, not the person sitting behind the wheel? Or is it the insurance industry, who lobbies more than any other group, looking for more money or protection for them? Either way, it's not for the good of any person.
     
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  37. iamtheari

    iamtheari Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Based on my limited observations, drivers can’t handle the bureaucracy that a stop sign provides.
     
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  38. woodchucker

    woodchucker Pattern Altitude

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    Why so judgy? Shizz happens. You don't have the right to say who belongs or does not belong on a bike based on a random personal life experience share. Lay off dude.
     
  39. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    how about we mandate drunks go into the HIMS program for life or surrender their license?
     
  40. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That won't deter most drivers that abuse alcohol. And people don't want to think about the large number of drivers out there that do not have a valid license.