FAR question - Transponders

[stagecoachco]

Our club's 172 transponder cert expires at the end of April. Unfortunately there is no one on our home field that can do the cert. It needs to be flown down to Jeffco (Rocky Mtn Metro) to get certified. The problem is that it can't be flown down until next weekend (which is in May). According to 91.413, the transponder cannot be operated. Jeffco is a Class D and lies under the Denver Mode C veil. According to 91.215 (d), one can ask for an ATC authorized deviation from the transponder requirments if the transponder is inop (which in this case it will be legally inop). The request can be made at any time to the ATC facility having jursidiction over the airspace in question.

My question is, since the flight will require an altitude over 10,000' MSL, who is the ATC faciltiy having jursidiciton that one needs to contact first. My guess is Denver Center first, then Jeffco tower second. Will Denver Center be able to approve (or disapprove) the request for both the flight segment over 10,000' msl as well as under the DEN Mode C Veil? Would it be a good idea to contact Jeffco Tower ahead of time via phone? What about Denver Center (assuming one had the correct phone number)?

 

[Clark1961]

Take it to AATG in Greeley and avoid the DEN 30 mile mode-C. Center should have no problem with the inop transponder. It may not even be required if you can stay within 1,500 ft agl when over 10K.

 

[Piloto]

I think you are over concern. There are hundreds of transponders flying with expired biennials. ATC cannot tell the difference.

José

 

[stagecoachco]

Greeley would be an option, but I already have an appointment and ground transport lined up at Jeffco.

Piloto, I expect your right!!

 

[poadeleted20]

More likely Denver Approach, as they probably own the airspace up to about 12,000 for 40 miles around Denver. They're the folks you need to talk to about the Mode C veil, anyway, not Jeffco Tower. Beyond that, Denver Center. That said, if you're below 2500 AGL, the above-10 rule doesn't come into play.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

According to 91.413, the transponder cannot be operated.

It has been operating normally, correct?
Do not fly with it off, in order to satisfy some regulation. Safety is more important than legal.

 

[Piloto]

Greeley would be an option, but I already have an appointment and ground transport lined up at Jeffco.

Piloto, I expect your right!!

I know more pilots flying without a medical than transponders out of biennial.

José

 

[alfadog]

If you want to be squeaky clean, call the TRACON and ask for a waiver. They should give you one with one hour's notice. That is what I have to do in the Luscombe if I actually want to enter Bravo or Charlie. I am exempt from the veil otherwise.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

ask for a waiver.

and fly with it off?

 

[alfadog]

and fly with it off?

Do whatever they ask you to do. My point is that TRACON controls the access and there is provision for you to, yes, fly with it off, but my guess is they will tell you to leave it on. Again, this being the ultimate CYI move. Short of a ferry permit and a waiver, that is

 

[poadeleted20]

ATC is not authorized to waive the provisions of 91.413. However, as long as your transponder isn't screwed up so it screws up their system, they won't care whether it's in certification or not. And if it is screwed up, they'll tell you to turn it off. So if it's working OK, unless you do something else which invites the FSDO's attention, your violation of 91.413 will be a tree falling in an unoccupied forest.

Just don't make a habit of it, lest one day your luck runs out and the tree falls on you,

 

[Captain]

Me, I'd just fly with it on. Actually, I'd like to think I'd have got it certified before expiration, but short of that safe is a notch above legal in my book.