Fair deal? (And anyone in RDU who would take it?)

[mcmanigle]

Hi all, I've just moved back from abroad to the RDU area, and am looking to find a plane to fly for fun (putzing around the area with friends, weekend trips around the east coast, etc). I'm not looking for anything crazy -- a decent 4-seat trainer would do the job fine, though 430 or equivalent would be ideal.

There are a few rental options around here, and my big problem is that I don't have a ton of time in my schedule this year, and a 20-minute vs 40-minute drive could make a big difference. Rental options include Empire at HNZ (I did a bit of my instrument work with them; basic old trainers; fine but not pretty, and a 45-minute drive), Wings over Carolina (seems like a fantastic club, but again 45-minute drive), FlightGest at RDU (will probably be doing multi work with them, they did me a huge favor a few years ago with scheduling an instrument checkride, more expensive than the others but much closer at 25 minutes).

I'm leaning toward FlightGest, but would love to find somebody at Chapel Hill Airport (15 minutes away, great little field though they don't allow training so no rental ops) or Lake Ridge 8NC8 (used to fly out of here until Empire moved to HNZ; great grass field though can't fly after a good rain).

Having never rented a private plane before, I don't know what terms would be, but wondering if you (especially owners) would give a quick reaction to what you would think if somebody offered you:

1. Show me a total of what you paid in maintenance last year, incl annual, and I'll pay half of it this year in monthly instalments. (I have a steady income that's enough to fly but not enough for unexpected expenses -- which is why I rent...)

2. I'll pay the higher of what it takes to add me to your insurance (as pilot and named insured), or half of your insurance with me on it.

3. I'll pay some depreciation / overhaul amount on an hourly basis, and

4. I'll pay for my own fuel and oil.

5. Of course I'll pay to be checked out with the flight instructor of your choice, and/or with you, and/or with a flight instructor I find if you don't have one you like.

Does that seem like a fair deal? It does to me, but having never owned a plane I may be missing something. And if you know anybody at IGX or 8NC8 who you think might be interested in it, or options I haven't considered in the area, let me know!

 

[stevenclin]

Hi all, I've just moved back from abroad to the RDU area, and am looking to find a plane to fly for fun (putzing around the area with friends, weekend trips around the east coast, etc). I'm not looking for anything crazy -- a decent 4-seat trainer would do the job fine, though 430 or equivalent would be ideal.

There are a few rental options around here, and my big problem is that I don't have a ton of time in my schedule this year, and a 20-minute vs 40-minute drive could make a big difference. Rental options include Empire at HNZ (I did a bit of my instrument work with them; basic old trainers; fine but not pretty, and a 45-minute drive), Wings over Carolina (seems like a fantastic club, but again 45-minute drive), FlightGest at RDU (will probably be doing multi work with them, they did me a huge favor a few years ago with scheduling an instrument checkride, more expensive than the others but much closer at 25 minutes).

I'm leaning toward FlightGest, but would love to find somebody at Chapel Hill Airport (15 minutes away, great little field though they don't allow training so no rental ops) or Lake Ridge 8NC8 (used to fly out of here until Empire moved to HNZ; great grass field though can't fly after a good rain).

Having never rented a private plane before, I don't know what terms would be, but wondering if you (especially owners) would give a quick reaction to what you would think if somebody offered you:

1. Show me a total of what you paid in maintenance last year, incl annual, and I'll pay half of it this year in monthly instalments. (I have a steady income that's enough to fly but not enough for unexpected expenses -- which is why I rent...)

2. I'll pay the higher of what it takes to add me to your insurance (as pilot and named insured), or half of your insurance with me on it.

3. I'll pay some depreciation / overhaul amount on an hourly basis, and

4. I'll pay for my own fuel and oil.

5. Of course I'll pay to be checked out with the flight instructor of your choice, and/or with you, and/or with a flight instructor I find if you don't have one you like.

Does that seem like a fair deal? It does to me, but having never owned a plane I may be missing something. And if you know anybody at IGX or 8NC8 who you think might be interested in it, or options I haven't considered in the area, let me know!

John,

Couple comments:

1) You mention IGX/8NC8 as being your preferred airports so I assume you are on the west side of Raleigh/Durham. You may want to also check out BUY (Burlington, NC). From the Chapel Hill area, it's almost the same drive time to either BUY or RDU. There are at least two training/rental facilities there (Burlington Aviation and Elon Aviation) as well as at least one flying club (Western Flying Club). Just a thought if you have not already investigated it.

2) As for your proposed arrangements, you would be paying a lot under that arrangement - basically half of most costs aside from hangar and equity/debt service in the plane, so if I were you under that kind of arrangement, I'd expect pretty good access to the plane (i.e. almost an every-other week type setup), and to be flying it nearly half of the total hours. And if you're flying that much, you are really looking more at a non-equity partnership rather than a straight rental agreement.

In other words, I think you need to decide whether you want to find an FBO or flying club that you want to rent/buy into, or whether you want to find a solo owner and enter into a non-equity partnership; part of that decision depends on your expected # of flight hours per year.

 

[gms5002]

I think you're offering too much and exposing yourself to too much liability in case of a mx issue. I would be looking for some sort of straight hobbs time arrangement. I'm not sure what the legalities of this are. I'm sure there's some sort of issue...

 

[frfly172]

Looks like your looking for a partnership,as opposed to a rental agreement.

 

[mcmanigle]

Thanks all! First, Burlington is a possibility (kind of halfway between at a 35-minute drive).

And yes, I guess what I'm looking for is a non-equity partnership. If I knew for sure I was going to be in the area for more than a year, I might be looking at an equity partnership, but I don't.

But yes, I would hope to find somebody who flies about 100 hr/year and fly a similar amount, which is why this sort of level of commitment makes sense to me. The big thing is, I can't handle uncertainty, hence paying half of *last* year's expenses, and not *this* year's... As far as plane access, I'd be thinking shared Google calendar where the owner can kick me off up to about a week before any flight I'd schedule.

 

[PeeGee]

Looks like your looking for a partnership,as opposed to a rental agreement.

I've seen such arrangements called "non-equity partnerships". I'd be on one like white on rice if I could find one.
I passed on one years ago and sort of regret it, though it wasn't really right at the time.


sure wish aopa didn't kill the aircraft partnership website.

 

[Mike5250]

I am in a similar partnership and it has worked out pretty good. Our owner agreed to help pay for major repairs and agreed on a handshake to sell me the plane at an agreed price down the road. I had a few easy low cost years and this past year I bought 4 new cylinders and the owner paid for the rest of the work to make it an overhaul. Our owner never even flies so availability is great!

 

[JOhnH]

I've seen such arrangements called "non-equity partnerships". I'd be on one like white on rice if I could find one.
I passed on one years ago and sort of regret it, though it wasn't really right at the time.


sure wish aopa didn't kill the aircraft partnership website.

 

[topsail]

Hi all, I've just moved back from abroad to the RDU area, and am looking to find a plane to fly for fun (putzing around the area with friends, weekend trips around the east coast, etc). I'm not looking for anything crazy -- a decent 4-seat trainer would do the job fine, though 430 or equivalent would be ideal.

I would look at LHZ. I work by RDU but fly out of LHZ. Prices are better and its generally low key. You might want to give the flight school (total flight solutions) a call for their rental prices and/or call Steve Merritt the airport director to ask if he knows of anyone looking to share some costs. He usually has the pulse out there.