FAF to MAP in retract

[spiderweb]

I want to ask this of 1) frequent retract flyers, but especially of 2) Trinidad flyers:

What do you like to do on the FAC before the FAF, and what do you like to do at the FAF? In ALL aircraft, I do the prelanding checklist on the FAC, unless I am going to be turned in late, in which case I do it on the intercept. The only item I leave out is flaps, which I add when field is in sight. With the Saratoga, specifically, part of the prelanding check is to make sure I have slowed to 100 KIAS on the FAC and trimmed for that airspeed. At the FAF, I just lower the gear which gives me a 500 FPM descent. If I need to descend faster, I take out maybe 2 or 3 inches of MP, as needed. Again, no flaps until field in sight. It takes no time for me to slow to 85 KIAS with full flaps, and it is easy to do.

My question is, will this work for the Trinidad? And for the two of you who fly the specific one about which I am speaking, is this what they like at the flight school? I am thinking the target airspeeds are good, except that short final is supposed to be 73 KIAS, according to the procedures guide. Do they like 10 degrees of flaps on the descent?

 

[TMetzinger]

Looking at my custom checklist:

I brief the approach and get set up prior to the IAF, or as soon as the controller lets me know what approach he's vectoring me for.

I fly the initial approach at anywhere from 120 KIAS to cruise speeds, and normally drop the gear just prior to the FAF. I then will use whatever flaps I feel are necessary and slowing towards 90 in the descent, holding off on full flaps until the runway is in sight. I try to target 75 KIAS on short final

Depending on the airport, I may fly the approach faster, to Vle of 139, if they are asking me to keep the speed up. It's easy to slow down if the wheels are down in that airplane.

Recommend you experiment and see what your comfort level is and find the speeds that work for you. When I first started flying the airplane the initial approach was no faster than 120 slowing to 90 at the FAF. As I got more familiar with it's characteristics I got comfortable flying faster. However, I'm not shy (and you shouldn't be either) about flying the whole damn thing at 90 knots if the weather is really bad or I'm having trouble concentrating or.... Everybody behind me is better off holding while I land then holding or diverting while they deal with the crash.

 

[ScottM]

I want to ask this of 1) frequent retract flyers, but especially of 2) Trinidad flyers:

What do you like to do on the FAC before the FAF, and what do you like to do at the FAF? In ALL aircraft, I do the prelanding checklist on the FAC, unless I am going to be turned in late, in which case I do it on the intercept. The only item I leave out is flaps, which I add when field is in sight. With the Saratoga, specifically, part of the prelanding check is to make sure I have slowed to 100 KIAS on the FAC and trimmed for that airspeed. At the FAF, I just lower the gear which gives me a 500 FPM descent. If I need to descend faster, I take out maybe 2 or 3 inches of MP, as needed. Again, no flaps until field in sight. It takes no time for me to slow to 85 KIAS with full flaps, and it is easy to do.

I meet condition #1

Prior to FAF but being vectored or on the FAC I brief the approach note wind corrections that I am making to get a feel for the wind (these are checked against the GPS trask and the DG). Configure the plane for 100kts IAS and watch the GS to see what that is going to translate to when I turn FAC. At the FAF I drop the gear 10degrees of flaps and trim for 500 or 750 fpm decent depending on the type of approach and correct speed for the required GS and of course TTTTT

 

[bbchien]

At the FAF, I just lower the gear which gives me a 500 FPM descent. If I need to descend faster, I take out maybe 2 or 3 inches of MP, as needed. Again, no flaps until field in sight. It takes no time for me to slow to 85 KIAS with full flaps, and it is easy to do.

My question is, will this work for the Trinidad? And for the two of you who fly the specific one about which I am speaking, is this what they like at the flight school? I am thinking the target airspeeds are good, except that short final is supposed to be 73 KIAS, according to the procedures guide. Do they like 10 degrees of flaps on the descent?

Barely meet criteria #2. TB20 is pretty highly wing loaded and gets quite draggy with partial flaps. Your strategy will work.

 

[wsuffa]

Ben, my Commander is draggy, too. I follow a similar procedure that you do - if properly trimmed for airspeed at the FAF, dropping gear gives me about 500 fpm descent. Flaps make it come down like a rock. If visual and a slam-dunk approach, I modify the procedure as required. I'm allowed 20-deg of flaps if the airspeed is above max-gear-operating.

The folks I know who have the TB-20 say it flys similarly.

 

[spiderweb]

Thanks for all of your responses! I think I will do that, then--I will still not add flaps until field is made. Instead, I will trim for my desired airspeed, and drop the gear at the FAF.

I'm really looking forward to this! I've practically memorized the POH. Now, all I need is to teach a few more students so I can afford this!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I want to ask this of 1) frequent retract flyers, but especially of 2) Trinidad flyers:

What do you like to do on the FAC before the FAF, and what do you like to do at the FAF? In ALL aircraft, I do the prelanding checklist on the FAC, unless I am going to be turned in late, in which case I do it on the intercept. The only item I leave out is flaps, which I add when field is in sight.

Ben,

I'm probably not going to give you much useful info here, but I want to post what I do to see what the more experienced folks think. The majority of my retract time, and I think all of my retract instrument time, is in an Arrow III.

On a full-procedure approach, I slow to approach speed as I'm approaching the IAF, and after crossing I'll do the landing checklist and drop one notch of flaps while outbound. If being vectored, I do the above on the base leg. When established on the FAC, I don't want to have to do anything more than absolutely necessary other than fly the approach. At the FAF, I drop the gear.

Thoughts? What are the advantages/disadvantages to doing it this way (mostly earlier, it seems) and doing it the way Ben describes?

 

[spiderweb]

Thoughts? What are the advantages/disadvantages to doing it this way (mostly earlier, it seems) and doing it the way Ben describes?

I don't think that we do anything really differently, except that you put down a notch of flaps before the FAF, and I don't put any in until I have the field.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I don't think that we do anything really differently, except that you put down a notch of flaps before the FAF, and I don't put any in until I have the field.

The way you described, I was under the impression that I was doing the landing checklist a lot earlier - Outbound/procedure turn if it's a full procedure, base leg on vectors, vs. your doing it on the final approach course (I'm assuming that means inbound).

 

[jdwatson]

In the 172RG, my "approach level" configuration is with the gear down. I hit the IAF, drop the gear and trim. The RG's gear extension speed is pretty high and it's not too draggy. Plus once I get the gear down, it's pretty much a 172R with a controllable prop. The rest of the approach is just done normal with regards to flaps & etc. 3 gear down checks (GUMPSFF), one at IAF, one when I turn inbound, one on short final.

For VFR approaches, I drop the gear at TPA and trim for "approach level". 3 gear down checks, on downwind, after turn to base, on final.

GUMPSFF = Gas, Undercarriage, Mixture, Prop, Switches, Flaps, cowl Flaps. My flow to double check starts at the fuel selector, switches, gear knob, carb heat, throttle (RPM), prop, mixture, flaps, then down to cowl flaps. Sort of clockwise circle starting at the bottom of the plane. I run my double check flow at each configuration change or GUMPSFF. Why double check ? I'm paranoid about the gear and the carb heat.

 

[AirBaker]

It's easy to slow down if the wheels are down in that airplane.

Since I really have to work to slow the Bo down to flap speeds, gear come down first Typically at the FAF unless I need to drop...

 

[poadeleted20]

I don't like to do anything on the FAC but fly the approach. I get everything but the gear and approach flaps on the initial and intermediate segments, and hit the gear and approach flaps at the FAF. I save the landing flaps until the field is in sight and I've committed to landing.

 

[spiderweb]

Thanks for your input, Ron.