Faded Runway may require Higher Vis Minimums

dmccormack

dmccormack

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dan Mc
This summer my son and I flew up to KPTD (Potsdam, NY). It was IMC most of the way (backside of a low, and fairly smooth), and as we arrived the AWOS reports varied from Clg 300-500, visibility 2-3 miles.

We were vectored for the GPS 24 Approach and after reaching MDA, started looking for the airport.

As you can see in these pictures, it was very hard to pick out a runway -- the faded markings, lack of approach lights, and even the faded pavement all blended in with roads and driveways.

We were at the VDP before I finally was able to be certain that we were looking at a runway, not due to visibility, but due to the faded, barely recognizable runway markings.

I wrote up a review on AirNav and recieved this response:

Response from Michael Weil, Village Administrator, Village of Potsdam
The runways are scheduled for rejuvenation during the week of July 28, 2008. They will get temporary markings after the application of sealant and will be fully repainted in late August after the pavement has cured.
 

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dmccormack;349124 [I said:
Response from Michael Weil, Village Administrator, Village of Potsdam[/i]
The runways are scheduled for rejuvenation during the week of July 28, 2008. They will get temporary markings after the application of sealant and will be fully repainted in late August after the pavement has cured.
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Considering it is now September I would say that ship has sailed. You gonna write back and point out that according to his own schedule they blew it?
 
smigaldi said:
Considering it is now September I would say that ship has sailed. You gonna write back and point out that according to his own schedule they blew it?
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No..this flight was right before the scheduled date.

We're supposed to be up there in 2 weeks, so we'll see.

I just located the pics, is all.

:)
 
dmccormack said:
No..this flight was right before the scheduled date.

We're supposed to be up there in 2 weeks, so we'll see.

I just located the pics, is all.

:)
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I did not catch that from your post, I thought it was a recent flight.

When we redid our runway a couple of years ago it was unpainted for a month. Coming in at night you could not see anything even in VMC as the brand new asphalt was so black. I just would aim for the darkest spot between the runway lights which at that time were pail blue, like taxiway lights (NSRL).
 
Kinda like picking a snow-covered runway out of the snow-covered ground through the white haze while you're scraping the bottoms of the white clouds...

One of the few approaches I've ever shot twice, and the second time I used a sectional chart ;)

Fly safe!

David
 
MauleSkinner said:
Kinda like picking a snow-covered runway out of the snow-covered ground through the white haze while you're scraping the bottoms of the white clouds...

One of the few approaches I've ever shot twice, and the second time I used a sectional chart ;)

Fly safe!

David
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I had a similar experience landing at Glenwood Mn this morning. Complicating things was a thin "scattered" layer at 100 AGL. The single hard surfaced runway was paved about a month ago and hasn't been painted yet so even though I had good ground contact most of the way in at the 372 AGL MDA but didn't find the runway until I was practically over the threshold. I was actually in good VMC above the scattered layer although there were other clouds in the vicinity up higher. I climbed 100 ft to the circling mins over the runway and proceeded to make a circling approach that worked out OK. Normally I would have gone missed instead but having the runway in sight and being in good VMC made it feel quite safe to do what I did.
 
dmccormack said:
This summer my son and I flew up to KPTD (Potsdam, NY). It was IMC most of the way (backside of a low, and fairly smooth), and as we arrived the AWOS reports varied from Clg 300-500, visibility 2-3 miles.
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Did you ever land there before they improved the runway? My sister and her family lived in Pottsdam for many years and I flew into that airport several times. When I first started going there the runway was much narrower, a bit shorter, and crumbling IIRC. The last few times I was there (seems like 5 or so years ago) they had widened, lengthened and resurfaced the runway plus they added a nice paved tiedown area. Still no fuel there though, at least the last time I flew in. The GPS approach is nice, I think it was an NDB when I first started going there. And parking was limited to some soggy grass next to someone's hangar.
 
lancefisher said:
Did you ever land there before they improved the runway? My sister and her family lived in Pottsdam for many years and I flew into that airport several times. When I first started going there the runway was much narrower, a bit shorter, and crumbling IIRC. The last few times I was there (seems like 5 or so years ago) they had widened, lengthened and resurfaced the runway plus they added a nice paved tiedown area. Still no fuel there though, at least the last time I flew in. The GPS approach is nice, I think it was an NDB when I first started going there. And parking was limited to some soggy grass next to someone's hangar.
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You know someone that lived in Potsdam?? Must have taught at Clarkson or SUNY Potsdam...

:)


No... this was my first time into KPTD (last trips I went to KMSS -- bigger runways, ILS approach, and rental car service from Enterprise).

The self service fuel setup is brand spankin' new and the fuel price was very reasonable for NY ($5.25 in July, IIRC)

Given the weather variations up there (90 in July, -40 in January) it's no wonder the pavement looks bad.
 
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dmccormack said:
You know someone that lived in Potsdam?? Must have taught at Clarkson or SUNY Potsdam...
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Yup. Head of the Band department for many years.

:)


No... this was my first time into KPTD (last trips I went to KMSS -- bigger runways, ILS approach, and rental car service from Enterprise).
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The self service fuel setup is brand spankin' new and the fuel price was very reasonable for NY ($5.25 in July, IIRC)[/quote]

Figures they's add fuel now that I'm no longer going there. I always ended up making a stop at MSS or OGS on the way home to fuel the plane.

Given the weather variations up there (90 in July, -40 in January) it's no wonder the pavement looks bad.
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Sounds just like home (MSP).
 
I have a friend who's son attends Clarkson, I believe he is a Sophmore this year. We talked about flying up there sometime instead of him making the 7 hr drive each way. Looking forward to this report on your next arrival to see how it turned out.
 
Rob Schaffer said:
I have a friend who's son attends Clarkson, I believe he is a Sophmore this year. We talked about flying up there sometime instead of him making the 7 hr drive each way. Looking forward to this report on your next arrival to see how it turned out.
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Rob,

You will have him hooked in one trip, I'm sure!

Coming up from eastern PA you probably want to stay out over the Hudson and come up the western shore of Lake Champlain, then head west over Malone. There are a few active MOAs over the northern Adirondacks and the terrain has swallowed its share of airplanes over the years.

I come up the western side via SYR--> ART and then across the St Lawrence Valley.

Potsdam airport is certainly a fine stop as long as you've made arrangements for someone to meet you. It's a LONG walk into town!
 
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