FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

N801BH said:
I have owned a few certified ships...... NEVER again....:nonod::no:...

Experimentals are looking better all the time...:yes::yes::D
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This is a pretty interesting concept, SBs are a method the manufacturer uses to inform the owners of potential maintenance problems that other owners are experiencing.

where is that safety net in experimentals ?
 
And if I read it correctly, a correct inspection is not required for 2000 Air Frame hrs or 7 calendar years, correct?

Is there a way to hold the cables I place while the turnbuckle and all is disassembled or will the cable need to be strung?
 
tmyers said:
And if I read it correctly, a correct inspection is not required for 2000 Air Frame hrs or 7 calendar years, correct?

Is there a way to hold the cables I place while the turnbuckle and all is disassembled or will the cable need to be strung?
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Basically it will require removal and re-installation.
 
tmyers said:
And if I read it correctly, a correct inspection is not required for 2000 Air Frame hrs or 7 calendar years, correct?

Is there a way to hold the cables I place while the turnbuckle and all is disassembled or will the cable need to be strung?
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Here is the 10 steps to the inspection, quoted from the SB

SERVICE BULLETIN NO. 1245 PAGE 2 of 3
INSTRUCTIONS:
NOTE: Refer to the applicable Piper Maintenance Manual for model specific details.
1. Secure a jack stand to the tail skid (tie down). Visually inspect the entire length of the Stabilator flight control cable system, with special emphasis on the turnbuckle area, as described in the steps that follow.
2. Locate the rear cabin bulkhead, which is behind the aft seats. The rear cabin bulkhead is accessible from inside the aircraft.
NOTE: Temporary removal of seats and/or other interior components may be required to accomplish this inspection.
3. Remove and retain the access cover from the rear cabin bulkhead, in order to gain access to the tailcone area.
4. Identify the two (2) stabilator flight control cable turnbuckles, which are located inside the tailcone, directly aft of the rear cabin bulkhead. See Figure 1. Using procedures described in the appropriate Service/Maintenance Manual, disassemble the turnbuckle bodies to facilitate a complete inspection of the turnbuckle bodies and associated cable terminals.
5. Clean the turnbuckle bodies and associated cable terminals thoroughly with a suitable solvent prior to inspection.
NOTE: Most of the affected aircraft use control cables featuring strands made of galvanized steel. By design, the galvanized coating corrodes sacrificially, protecting the steel strands underneath. This normal corrosion process creates zinc oxide powder, which can migrate along the length of the control cable, covering the surfaces of the turnbuckle components with an inert white speckled coating. This coating, along with any other contaminants such as dirt, oil or grease, must be removed in order to properly examine the turnbuckle and cable terminals.
6. Using a 10X magnifier, a mirror and a suitable light source, carefully examine the entire surface of each turnbuckle, cable terminal, and adjacent portion of the flight control cable, inspecting for cracks, corrosion, or broken cable strands. Any evidence of cracks, corrosion, or cable fraying, however minute, is cause for replacement.
7. Using procedures described in the appropriate Service/Maintenance Manual, reassemble the turnbuckle bodies and associated cable terminals. Rig and adjust stabilator travel and stabilator control cable tension.
8. Reinstall the rear cabin bulkhead access cover, which was removed in Step 3. Reinstall any interior components that were removed in Step 2.
9. Remove the jack stand from the aircraft.
10. Make a logbook entry indicating compliance with this Service Bulletin.
 
N801BH said:
That is for us homebuilders to know,,, and you A&P's /IA's to not worry about... :D:yes:....
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Is that admitting there is none?

Every A/HB Experimental is an experiment, every Experimental pilot is a test pilot.
 
N801BH said:
If there is a SB = Service Bulletin.... Hell ya.... I want YOU to look at those items REAL close..... Why would you even think otherwise.:dunno::dunno::dunno:...
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There are thousands of Service Bulletins, not to mention Service Letters, Service Instructions, service Difficulty Reports, Maintenance Alerts, etc and not just for the airframe but also the engine, propeller, magnetos, carburetor, vacuum pump - every single individual component.

You're going to have to draw the line somewhere and just because you own an experimental aircraft that may not have many, or any of these documents does not mean that similar situations and conditions addressed by these documents don't exist. It just means nobody is telling you about them.
 
If I read the AD correctly, it seems you can choose either
  • replace the control cables at a cost of $1458 and then you're off the hook for 15 years before you have to do anything else (almost $100 per year)
  • or you can spend $425 on the inspection and repeat after 7 years ($60 per year)
It would be a tough choice. It would save about $40 per year on average to do the inspections, assuming you never had to replace anything, but maybe more convenient to replace once and get it out of the way.
 
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Tom-D said:
this SB is WAY over the top in the methods that are normally used in inspection of installed cables systems.
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We can also take note that this "concern" is only on specific Piper aircraft and only for the stab control cables. The cable/turnbuckle hardware are identical to all others so this indicates an abnormal condition or situation.
 
N801BH said:
NOPE...........

WE know what we are doing... you guys make up *****.....
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Had a hangar neighbor a few years ago who owned a Glastar. He told me he was going to "up" the gross weight of his aircraft and when I asked him what that involved he told me it involved the act of him saying it was so.
 
N801BH said:
NOPE...........

WE know what we are doing... you guys make up *****.....
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I've seen some very stupid cause of accidents such as the builder bonding a piece of foam or rubber to an airbox that was sucked in about 15 hours later.
 
I would bet if you combined all the accidents that arent reported with those that are, the data would be eye opening.
 
Silvaire said:
Had a hangar neighbor a few years ago who owned a Glastar. He told me he was going to "up" the gross weight of his aircraft and when I asked him what that involved he told me it involved the act of him saying it was so.
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And he was 100% correct too......
 
There was another guy with a homebuilt, can't remember what model it was but it was a pusher. Anyway, he didn't like the looks of his exhaust pipes so he cut about six inches off of them. About 15 minutes into his first "test" flight the exhaust had sliced about half a foot off of the three blades of his composite propeller and he went down.
 
bnt83 said:
And what's that supposed to mean? Obviously I don't comprehend your out of this world insults.
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Not an insult when you posted the comment " None of my injuries were caused by tempting Darwin but I've done plenty of questionable stuff when I was "invincible" during those years "...

All I did was cut and paste your words...:):lol:;)
 
N801BH said:
Not an insult when you posted the comment " None of my injuries were caused by tempting Darwin but I've done plenty of questionable stuff when I was "invincible" during those years "...

All I did was cut and paste your words...:):lol:;)
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Ok then. What was the point?
 
Silvaire said:
We can also take note that this "concern" is only on specific Piper aircraft and only for the stab control cables. The cable/turnbuckle hardware are identical to all others so this indicates an abnormal condition or situation.
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Yep… I didn't get that either. If it is the fault of the Standard hardware that all aircraft use, why isn't the AD against the hardware, and all aircraft that use it?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/turnbuckles.php?clickkey=5676
 
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tmyers said:
But isn't it covering most of the Piper Aircraft?
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How many of the aircraft that are not listed do you believe Piper has any Liability left on the 15 year liability statute?
 
Tom-D said:
How many of the aircraft that are not listed do you believe Piper has any Liability left on the 15 year liability statute?
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Darn good question. I'm guessing the ones they covered via the SB.



Just for comparison, remember lycoming crank corrosion inspection AD that covered the 150 horse when initially proposed, but still covers the 160 horse when written.
 
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Tom-D said:
Yep… I didn't get that either. If it is the fault of the Standard hardware that all aircraft use, why isn't the AD against the hardware, and all aircraft that use it?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/turnbuckles.php?clickkey=5676
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Cuz it aint a problem with the hardware. If it was it would be on the hardware, at least all the hardware on the affected planes, not just the stab ones. Me thinks that it has something to do with the environment created for the hardware my their position in the tail of certain piper aircraft
 
Is there any accident that has been linked back to this. Or reports of failure of this turnbuckle, not just corrosion ?
 
It's not just a corrosion issue from what I can tell, they want you to inspect for cracks in the turnbuckle tube. The PA28 models do have a different animal back there with the stabilator setup. The in-flight forces may not be any greater but the control cables are moving more mass than with a typical elevator system. You can feel it when you go stop to stop while stationary on the ground. There's a pretty hefty counterweight back there as well. The problem might be caused by doing repeated aggressive "controls free and clear" preflight checks more than anything else. It's probably not that common but, as with many SB's and subsequent AD's there's a lot of CYA involved.
 
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Skylane81E said:
Cuz it aint a problem with the hardware. If it was it would be on the hardware, at least all the hardware on the affected planes, not just the stab ones. Me thinks that it has something to do with the environment created for the hardware my their position in the tail of certain piper aircraft
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Re-read steps 4,5 and 6 of the MSB, and note the type of cable we are inspecting, Its galvanize, and is corroding as protection of the steel cable, they first tell you it is corroding, then say any corrosion is cause for failure.

and yes we are inspecting the hardware too because it is part of the problem.
 
Silvaire said:
It's not just a corrosion issue from what I can tell, they want you to inspect for cracks in the turnbuckle tube. The PA28 models do have a different animal back there with the stabilator setup. The in-flight forces may not be any greater but the control cables are moving more mass than with a typical elevator system. You can feel it when you go stop to stop while stationary on the ground. There's a pretty hefty counterweight back there as well. The problem might be caused by doing repeated aggressive "controls free and clear" preflight checks more than anything else. It's probably not that common but, as with many SB's and subsequent AD's there's a lot of CYA involved.
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I doubt that aggressive control checks come anywhere near to the proof load of an 1/8 cable and its terminal.

Corrosion problems seems reasonable tho.

Proof load is 60% cable rated breaking strength which for 1/8 inch 7x19 steel cable would be 1200 pounds.
 
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Tom-D said:
Yep… I didn't get that either. If it is the fault of the Standard hardware that all aircraft use, why isn't the AD against the hardware, and all aircraft that use it?
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Same thing for the beechcraft circuit breaker AD. The same CB's are used in piper and cessna aircraft but went unnoticed.
 
JHW said:
Same thing for the beechcraft circuit breaker AD. The same CB's are used in piper and cessna aircraft but went unnoticed.
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You got that right. Texas Instrument and Wood circuit breakers also have ADs on them.
 
Tom-D said:
How many of the aircraft that are not listed do you believe Piper has any Liability left on the 15 year liability statute?
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Remember that when you buy a set of cables and turnbuckles from Piper, the liability clock on those parts starts again.
 
PilotAlan said:
Remember that when you buy a set of cables and turnbuckles from Piper, the liability clock on those parts starts again.
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How many owners do you believe have replaced these cables?

Plus how many of those owners will use a replacement cable manufactured in the field?

Lots of common sense things simply do not add up in this AD.
 
weilke said:
Is there any accident that has been linked back to this. Or reports of failure of this turnbuckle, not just corrosion ?
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Yes read the pre-amble to the AD.
 
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