FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by mikea, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. mikea

    mikea Touchdown! Greaser!

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    From the AOPA Avaition eBrief::
    :confused:
    Aren't the cables checked at annual anyway?
     
  2. Tom-D

    Tom-D Touchdown! Greaser!

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    To this extent,,,, no.
     
  3. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Saw the AD this morning on Avweb. Given the age of some of these components it doesn't seem on the surface like such a bad idea. Just another thing to pay for, but if we're going to keep flying these antiquated airframes we'd best be prepared to shell out for maintenance.
     
  4. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Can't read the article no WSJ subscription.

    Here's the AD


    I'm exempt. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  5. AdamZ

    AdamZ Administrator Management Council Member

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    They are also requiring older piper pilots to have their cables checked as well:wink2:
     
  6. John221us

    John221us En-Route

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    You have a year from March to comply. They are estimating 5 hours, but it doesn't seem like it would take that long, if you do it at annual (Tom?).
     
  7. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

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    This seems like a silly AD.


    Have your elevator control cables checked at annual (should happen anyway) and if they are messed up, replace them.
     
  8. flyingmoose

    flyingmoose Pattern Altitude

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    Interesting Quote:

    Request To Rescind the AD
    Gregory E. Sniegowski, Carl Poplawsky, and Eric Stendahl stated that since inspections of the
    control systems and pulleys are already part of the annual inspection, the requirements of this AD
    would seem to be redundant and that the NPRM should be withdrawn.
    We do not agree. The service difficulty report (SDR) database shows that certain Piper models
    have multiple reports of cracks, corrosion, failure of the turnbuckle, control cable fraying, or cable
    swage end breaks. This AD was prompted by reports concerning an accident on a Piper Model PA-
    32R-301T and an incident on a Piper Model PA-32R-300 airplane
     
  9. tmyers

    tmyers En-Route

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    Most of what I have read about the failures is back near the vent fan mounting location. Many times moisture is present from entering the intake screen in the vertical stab. Breaks in the scat tubing and sometimes just leakage through the scat tube connections allow moisture into the empanage near the turnbuckle causing corrosion. I knew about this prior to purchasing and had the A&P crawl back into the tail section to look at it. Nothing was found on the cable or swage or turnbuckle, but some corrosion was noted behind the battery box which I had him remove and treat.

    Hopefully it won't take too long at annual, or I might have it looked at next time I have my A&P in my plane.
     
  10. Graueradler

    Graueradler Pattern Altitude

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    Is the Piper method for making up these cables any different than the method used by other manufacturers??
     
  11. flyingmoose

    flyingmoose Pattern Altitude

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    Not likely. The AD which References a SB talks mainly about the turnbuckles and taking them apart to inspect them thoroughly.
     
  12. SkyVoyager

    SkyVoyager Pre-Flight

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    Looks like I'll need to get a smaller A&P for my next annual! :D
     
  13. Geico266

    Geico266 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Flight control cables are not inspected fully? :eek:

    That makes no sense at all.
     
  14. Tom-D

    Tom-D Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My first initial read leads me to believe that it can be done in 5 hours with a bore scope thru the tail cone access panel.

    The AD is done after the effective date at the next occurring annual and each 2000 hours after that. (if the aircraft is 15 years old)

    this is 1 of the MSB that Piper had that every body gaffed off. and it turned ugly.

    I'd get it done ASAP, there could be a run on cable sets when this kicks in.
     
  15. Tom-D

    Tom-D Touchdown! Greaser!

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    This is a case of "Should be" and reality.
     
  16. flyingmoose

    flyingmoose Pattern Altitude

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    You cannot do this with a boroscope. The MSB says that you have to take apart the turnbuckles, clean, and inspect with a 10x.
     
  17. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Have you ever seen the control cable routing in a Lear or Citation X? Maybe we should stop at Duncan sometime.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  18. Geico266

    Geico266 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Been there several times. :D. I buy parts there, and have work done. ;)

    Hell of a difference between a Lear and a Piper.
     
  19. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Not really any different in the wire rope control cable systems.
     
  20. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Dassault products on the other hand are all carbon fiber pushrods & bellcranks from the cockpit all the way to the hydraulic PCU's on every flight control.
     
  21. Geico266

    Geico266 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No difference in a Lear or Citation and a 50 year old Piper. :rolleyes:

    Bet on the 49ers last night? :lol:
     
  22. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Who are the 49ers? :dunno:
     
  23. flyingmoose

    flyingmoose Pattern Altitude

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    Good thing Lear and Citations get different inspections than annuals! :rolleyes:
     
  24. Tom-D

    Tom-D Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The AD does not apply to a Lear or Citation X.

    Why would we need to go any where to figure this out?
     
  25. Tom-D

    Tom-D Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Figures, I didn't read the MSB.

    In that case, I do not see any one removing, inspecting, and replacing them in 5 man hours.

    That whole system will need re-rigging after replacement.
     
  26. tmyers

    tmyers En-Route

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    The re-rigging will have to potential to cause more problems than the corroded turnbuckles. I saw a picture of one of the corroded swaged ends. It wasn't hard to see there was a problem.
     
  27. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    They left the PA-25 off the list. We just replaced our elevator cable last year after finding it almost frayed through, when we were doing different work in the area. In the PA-25, it's fully exposed inside the fuselage.
     
  28. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

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    One of the commentators in the AD requested withdrawal of the AD based on that. the FAA said, "we disagree'.
     
  29. JHW

    JHW En-Route

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    it's also pretty hard to miss. BTW ours was the same. cable corrosion is a common complaint in ag planes and pawnee's in particular.
     
  30. Steve Foley

    Steve Foley Pattern Altitude

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    From the Avweb article:
     
  31. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    A big part of the problem are pencil whip annuals. A lot of planes have the "walk around and an oil change" annual so little details such as frayed and corroded cables get missed. So after several cables have been found out of tolerance the FAA is mandating an AD to attempt to rectify the situation. However what the FAA is missing is these same IA's that are pencil whipping will just pencil whip the AD as well. :nonod:
     
  32. flyingmoose

    flyingmoose Pattern Altitude

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    Yup. Apparently no one payed attention to the mandatory SB. After 10 years they are still having problems, so they have to make it an AD. My guess is that it still will not be complied with properly.
     
  33. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Not every IA can pay for access to all the Service Bulletins. Who knows if the owner was aware, requested or denied compliance with them.


    IMHO each owner should have thier own up to date maintenance manuals, parts manuals and current SB listing for thier airplane, especially if they if they are going to complain about $2k annuals on the 4 seat single engine fixed gear, and take them to the bargin shop to save $500.
     
  34. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    :(:yes::redface:
     
  35. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The IA should get out of the business if he/she cannot and will not get all pertinent data for any airframe they are performing mechanical work on....

    :mad::mad2::mad2::mad2:
     
  36. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

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    From Piper SB 1245A:

    In other words this is something abnormal. It is not normal procedure during annual inspections to disassemble the control cable turnbuckles for intense examination under a magnifying glass. Furthermore, why is such an inspection required only on specific Piper models and only on stab control cables?

    Now you can harp about this being a "Mandatory" Service Bulletin but do you really want to open that box? Do you want every IA out there to insist that EVERY factory service instruction be fully complied with in order to pass an annual? Think about it and do a bit of research before piping up because, in most cases, you will be appalled by the burden you are undertaking.

    Finally, as to "pencil whipped" annuals let me just say that there is no owner out there receiving such "service" that doesn't fully know it, whether he wants to admit it or not. So you can call the attack dogs off the A&P's.
     
  37. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    This has been a known problem as highlighted in the MSB. It is indeed the owner's discretion to comply with such SB's.

    On the other hand the person doing the annual inspection (IA) should avail himself the knowledge of the aircraft and it's particular AD's, SB's and MSB's. The IA should discuss with the owner about complying with the items and the importance of doing so, and if the owner refuses then at least the IA should have the owner sign a statement listing the SB's and that the owner acknowledges that he is not complying with said SB's.

    It's basic CYA, because when something does go bad the owners will typically look to blame the maintenance provider.


    There are far more pencil whip annuals taking place than people want to admit. There are also IA's out there with less than stellar backgrounds that will do the minimum to maximize profits. This is why it pays to do research and find a maintenance provider that knows what he is doing and has the background and knowledge to provide such a service.

    BTW, I hold an A&P with IA. Welcome to the Church of the Painful Truth.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  38. bluerooster

    bluerooster Cleared for Takeoff

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    My airplane is 50 years old, but the cables are only 2 years old.
    Just scanning the AD, I saw no mention about the age of the cables, just the airframe. Am I safe to assume that because my cables and turnbuckles are only 2 years old, I still have 13 years before I gotta lay 'em all out on th' table for inspection?
    I know, "assumption is the mother of all FUs"
     
  39. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Imagine these old cessna high wings from the 1960 that have not had the headliner out in the last 25 years... They are everywhere.
     
  40. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

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    Shorty, according to the AD you do get credit if the SB was done prior....