FAA Overhaul Bill to be Released July 1

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by old cfi, Jun 26, 2015.

  1. old cfi

    old cfi Pre-takeoff checklist Gone West

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  2. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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  3. Cruiser

    Cruiser Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Well out of the 50,000 FAA employees, about 35,000 work in ATC.
    This proposal is a huge shift in federal divestiture of retirement responsibility (pension and health care)
    The FAA will be left with less than 15,000 workers. Insignificant by government standards.

    the last bullet point statement:
    "Result in operating efficiencies that will save taxpayers billions of dollars annually, plus prevent the waste of billions more on failed modernization efforts."

    This is a going to be interesting. I don't see how the controllers union would possibly agree to something like this......
     
  4. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    It will be a PATCO all over again....:rolleyes:
     
  5. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    The govt already has gotten rid of most retirement plans for federal workers. It's called the "Thrift Savings Plan", think 401K with not much for employer matching. Most of those under the "old" plan are already retired and dying off.

    I'm not sure what the current controllers have for retirement, but I think they are under the TSP.
     
  6. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    I don't think the current work force has the Ba**s that PATCO had.

    They backed down once before, in the early 90s.
     
  7. PeeGee

    PeeGee Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It's tsp, which is a 5 percent max match and a small pension. Not much for being forced out at 56.

    "save taxpayer dollars" means user fees support the cost.
     
  8. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    TSP and FERS.
     
  9. PeeGee

    PeeGee Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Csrs are almost all gone.
     
  10. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    FERS. Essentially 1% per year of service (including military time) based upon your "high three". So 30 years of service will get a pension of 30% of your highest pay.

    (This is highly generalized, google FERS for better information)
     
  11. MarkZ

    MarkZ En-Route

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    All controllers hired after 1983 (I believe) fall under FERS retirement system. The ones hired beforehand fell under CSRS.
     
  12. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    FERs is 1% for each year of service, based on high three right now. So work 30 years, high three $100k, you make $30k pension for simple math calculations.

    TSP is basically a 401k where the first three % are dollar for dollar. After that, it's fifty cents on the dollar to five %. So if you contribute 5%, the gov matches 4%.

    You would be absolutely shocked at how much contracting is occurring in the federal government. It's almost like they are trying to shed employees and passing it off as cost savings while allowing the quality of product to slowly suffer. Much like our industrial sector... More imports with lower quality just to save a buck.
     
  13. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    Thanks!
     
  14. vintage cessna

    vintage cessna Cleared for Takeoff

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    Why wouldn't the union want this? As government employees it is illegal to strike or to conduct a slow down. ATC service is a monopoly. Under the new arrangement they may be in a position to get what ever they want.
     
  15. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Well I'm not paying user fees, that's that.

    Out of all the money and fat that needs to be trimmed the FAA shouldn't even make the list.
     
  16. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    As a retired military now govt contractor, I believe your last statement is in error. Where I work we have about 7% govt oversight (top managers), about 15% military, and the balance is long term contractors. It's the contractors that do the bulk of the work and maintain the long term "corporate knowledge" needed to train the mobile military work force.
     
  17. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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  18. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    Read your history books, look up how badly the govt mismanaged the 1981 ATC negotiations. See if you an find one person who did jail time for an "illegal" job action.
     
  19. vintage cessna

    vintage cessna Cleared for Takeoff

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    The controller retirement is more generous than you think. Controllers retirement consists of an annuity, TSP and a social security supplement . Adds up to at least 50% of base pay.
     
  20. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Well, that's the "smaller government" everyone keeps crying for. "Let the business sector take it over, they know how to make money!" Well, that is what this is.
     
  21. vintage cessna

    vintage cessna Cleared for Takeoff

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    No, this is not a reduction of government . This is a political pay back for support. Who is going to bail out the orginisation when it can't pay the bills or pensions even with user fees? In the end the government will not let the air traffic system collapse. You will just be paying something labeled a fee instead of tax.
     
  22. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    So.....what your saying is 78% of your organization is contractors, correct? I think you just validated my statement. :yes:

    Not sure how that makes me in error. Please elaborate.
     
  23. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    How is it not a reduction in government when government employees and services are replaced by private sector ones?:dunno:
     
  24. ClimbnSink

    ClimbnSink Ejection Handle Pulled

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    They can watch and tax you through your TV.:hairraise::lol:
     
  25. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    The British have been taxed through their TVs for a long time.:lol:
     
  26. vintage cessna

    vintage cessna Cleared for Takeoff

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    The penalty for a federal worker engaged in an illegal work action is dismissal. History books indicate several thousand controllers were dismissed.

    This new orginisation will benefit no one but controllers. The idea that it will be self sufficient is fantasy. We are going to let a monopoly control a fair amount of our economy, not a good idea.

    The 1981 negotiations were not botched, the controllers were offered a pretty good deal but unfortunately they believed their own propaganda and thought Regan was bluffing.
     
  27. vintage cessna

    vintage cessna Cleared for Takeoff

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    That is how they are playing us for suckers. They are not government and so therefor have the right to strike and demand and get what ever they want no matter the cost. It is a monopoly system. The government will be forced to provide subsidies to keep it a float.

    In the end, call it what you want, but it will be payed for by the government. Just like Feddie Mac, which on paper is not government either.
     
  28. vintage cessna

    vintage cessna Cleared for Takeoff

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    This is really a brilliant move on the unions part and the right time to do it. They will have all the rights of private sector workers with no down side since the government will in the end protect their financial security .
     
  29. cowman

    cowman En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Because we're still paying for and now we don't even have the, admittedly limited, perks of gov oversight and non-profit motive.
     
  30. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Exactly, just like Wal Mart really.
     
  31. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    Not really... If ya don't like Walmart, you just go down the street to another vendor......

    With ATC, you are stuck with the status quo.... Even privatized,, they are the only ATC game in town....:rolleyes:
     
  32. PeeGee

    PeeGee Pre-takeoff checklist

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    still can't strike- railway labor act.
     
  33. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Right, reducing government does not reduce services, it transfers them to the private sector who add profit to it and we pay more for it in the end. Government in America serves one purpose, to support business in any way possible, and the only real way it has to do it is to take tax money and send it their way. This is true from the Federal Reserve, to the banks and insurance companies all the way to supporting Wal Mart's ability to do business by subsidizing their employees with food stamps. Wal Mart made billions last year in Lichtenstien where they have no stores, because that is where they stick their money. The billions were earnings on the money they have there. How much money do you need to earn billions on it?:dunno:
     
  34. PeeGee

    PeeGee Pre-takeoff checklist

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    absolutely.

    the vendor pays a little less to the workers and a bunch of middleman pockets get lined.
    when the vendor can't provide X service for Y years per the contract they go back to the government and demand more money like a worker going on strike threatening to suspend service and every time I have seen them try they get more money. every.single.time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
  35. vintage cessna

    vintage cessna Cleared for Takeoff

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    That is not correct. The parties just have to go through a process first before a strike can happen.
     
  36. vintage cessna

    vintage cessna Cleared for Takeoff

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    Do you really think the controllers union would be in favor of this proposal if it meant workers would get paid less? This idea was also proposed in the 90's by the Clinton administration and the union, but they didn't have their ducks in a row at the time.

    You guys are all wrapped up about third class medical reform while this disaster for GA has been stewing right under your nose.
     
  37. SbestCFII

    SbestCFII Line Up and Wait

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    OK, but FYI, this is a republican-sponsored initiative.
     
  38. SbestCFII

    SbestCFII Line Up and Wait

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    CFII Scott - The IFR Coach
    Name that film (Without Google), "You've managed to kill just about everyone else, but like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target!"
     
  39. vintage cessna

    vintage cessna Cleared for Takeoff

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    I know it is. They accept money just like Democrats. It all sounds like getting inefficient government out of the way of technological advancement of the system.

    Why would a union be in favor of advancing technology that will eventually replace workers?

    The contracting out of small Towers occurred in the Clinton administration. No FAA controllers lost their job when that happened. Where did the supposed savings go? Perhaps the huge pay raise that came later?
     
  40. SbestCFII

    SbestCFII Line Up and Wait

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    The ABS-B is less than five years from completion and the major holdup traditionally has been delays in congressional FAA funding. Now there is a republican-sponsored (so we can just set aside the Obama comment) initiative to put in place a USPS-like government sponsored corporation to make the system more efficient and institute user-fees. Anyone seen the inflated costs within a non-profit corporation lately. In the end, everyone pays more due to the inflated internal costs of the non-profit and you'll have a system that is ultimately less efficient and much more costly than the one we have now. Frankly, it's everything AOPA has been fighting against for the 23 years I've been in. And from a republican!?! It's like being shot in the back, but for Mr. Scheister, I'm sure whatever already hand-picked entity they have decided will administrate this new corporation has already donated tens of thousands to his re-election campaign.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2015