FAA 8500-8 Non-Traffic Violations

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Hello everyone,

I am in the process of filling out 8500-8.
Questions 18w mentions " History of nontraffic conviction(s) (misdemeanors or felonies)."

I have a shoplifting arrest from 2001 and I have pled guilty to Disorderly Conduct as a result. Disorderly conduct is neither a misdemeanor or a felony under NY State Law. It is a violation.
The court official and the lawyers that I talked to told me that I do not have to say yes to this question since it specifies only misdemeanors or felonies. I ran a fingerprint FBI background check on myself that came back with no records.
(I ran a fingerprint FBI background check on myself that came back with no records.)
(I ran a fingerprint FBI background check on myself that came back with no records.)

However, then I called the FAA Regional Flight Surgeon office and they advised me to put it down so going forward my integrity would not be questioned.

I checked back with the lawyer, who again said that I don't need to disclose the information since it does not apply to the question.

Looking for advice. I obviously do not want to withhold important information since false information on 8500-8 could get me denied but at the same time I don't want to volunteer information that is not being asked.
My biggest worry is that this information is very sealed as it is. As I mentioned there is not even a FBI record of it, it is sealed at a state level and happened more than 15 years ago. So volunteering it away is risky but if most people think that is what I should do, I am happy to do it.
Many thanks.
 
By "non-traffic convictions" I'm guessing they mean everything not covered in traffic law. I'd report it all to be safe. Unless the lawyer you consulted is an aviation attorney, he might not have the full picture. The FAA plays by slightly different rules.
 
bullwinkle said:
The FAA plays by slightly different rules
Click to expand...
Amen to that. FAA goes by Administrative Law, and your legal counselor might be answering from the viewpoint of criminal law.

This is one I would kick up the chain to a very senior AME such as Dr. Bruce Chien, www.aeromedicaldoc.com

From past online contributions, I believe Dr. Bruce has dealt with the wide variety of these 18w questions and is equipped to answer the question properly.
 
I do not understand the conflicting advice.
If the FAA asks for A and B but not C, report A and B, not C.
In this case, felony convictions and misdemeanor convictions must be reported but not violations.
The FAA is a federal body and thus will use the FBI for a bg check. If the FBI is not reporting any felony or misdemeanor convictions, this jives with the OP's history and I don't see a problem.
 
BigBadLou said:
I do not understand the conflicting advice.
If the FAA asks for A and B but not C, report A and B, not C.
In this case, felony convictions and misdemeanor convictions must be reported but not violations.
The FAA is a federal body and thus will use the FBI for a bg check. If the FBI is not reporting any felony or misdemeanor convictions, this jives with the OP's history and I don't see a problem.
Click to expand...
I do not believe the FAA uses the FBI for a CHRC. That requires fingerprinting.
 
I have been checked out by FBI in the past and it did not require fingerprinting. Though that is just my anecdotal story and I admit I have no knowledge of the FAA's procedures.
 
BigBadLou said:
I do not understand the conflicting advice.
If the FAA asks for A and B but not C, report A and B, not C.
In this case, felony convictions and misdemeanor convictions must be reported but not violations.
The FAA is a federal body and thus will use the FBI for a bg check. If the FBI is not reporting any felony or misdemeanor convictions, this jives with the OP's history and I don't see a problem.
Click to expand...

That.
 
This offense is a yawn. I would report it. They will eventually find it, it's always somewhere. Possess the court record to show that is was not an alcohol related plead-down.
 
BigBadLou said:
I do not understand the conflicting advice.
If the FAA asks for A and B but not C, report A and B, not C.
In this case, felony convictions and misdemeanor convictions must be reported but not violations.
Click to expand...
You mean I don't have to report the time I stole candy when I was 10 (I felt so guilty I went back to give myself up) just because if I was older and if they arrested me they might have convicted me of something that might have been a misdemeanor or felony?

I agree with you. When a question asks for specific information, your irrelevant life history is not the answer. The key, of course, is being certain exactly how the transgression is classified under state law. In doubt, find out or disclose it.
 
Yeah, I have a summary disorderly conduct from PA from 35 years ago (yeah, I was disorderly). I reported it at the time and I've been PRNCing it ever since. I've only recently realized that I probably didn't need to report it. I've only had one AME in the intervening years ever ask about the circumstances and I think that was only for his amusement.
 
Words have meaning..... Misdemeanor and felony have meaning. Infraction was not asked for nor implied. Volunteering information when it's not asked for is foolish in my opinion. There is no requirement to report anything. Yo give them what the ask for and that's it. If they feel so inclined to challange you on it, remind them what the document asked for, not what they have interpolated it means.

I filled out a background check and the question was "have you ever....." With a laundry list of nefarious acts to follow. In that case, answer as it applies.

Words have meaning my friend.
 
bbchien said:
This offense is a yawn. I would report it. They will eventually find it, it's always somewhere. Possess the court record to show that is was not an alcohol related plead-down.
Click to expand...

Bruce

I don't see how this applies to him as the question is specific to the charging level, e.g. Misd/Fel. Why would you advocate over disclosure when the form is rather specific to the type of charge they want to know about? Would you also advocate disclosure of a county ordinance violation such as burning trash w/o a permit or illegal dumping when they are also infraction level actions?


Not trying to skewer you on it. I just don't understand the logic.
 
If there is any possibility of an investigation (wreck, hotline call in, ATC "deal") they will find it. Then they will want to know that the disorderly was NOT an alcohol plead-down. If you have it in there either with the document, or with the AME reporting that there was no alcohol involvement, you just saved a certified demand letter and a lot of angst- both on OKC's part and on the pilot's part. I have had to help a few pilots out in this situation....

They will not only use FBI, they will demand a certified copy of the State's record from LEO arrest/description through disposition. This is like sending in the pathology report on a bit of skin taken off......once of prevention and it never comes back to whack you.

See my post from the 29th. They will want to know that this was NOT an alcohol plead down. I see these OFTEN. HAVE the goods or show the goods.

Say, they discover this 3 years after the fact and inquire. "It has come to the attention of the FAA QA division...." and you clerk of the court record has been destroyed (as in several states of the union). Then you get the psych eval demand. Get it?

Never hide the ball or be perceived as "maybe hiding the ball". Bad deal. You get crushed.
 
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