Ever ask for a handoff early? (VFR FF)

jasc15

jasc15

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Joe
This past weekend, I flew MMU-ZER with vfr flight following. On the return trip while I was talking to Allentown app, I was getting close to the NY class B (well, probably around 20 miles). Not too close, but I was at 5500MSL, and wanted to know if I should start a fast descent to get below the B, or if I would be able to descend through the B at a more reasonable rate.

Allentown had been slow to respond and I had to call 4 or 5 times to get initial radar contact, and didn't have much dialogue with them once I did. So I called to ask for a transfer to NY app, and they said they were working on the handoff. I did get a handoff, but was told to remain below the class B which required me to make a rather quick descent (~1000 fpm)

So I guess my question is whether it is reasonable to pester ATC for instructions that may or may not come? After all, I've been dropped without warning before, so I would at least know if they are still watching me.
 
jasc15 said:
This past weekend, I flew MMU-ZER with vfr flight following. On the return trip while I was talking to Allentown app, I was getting close to the NY class B (well, probably around 20 miles). Not too close, but I was at 5500MSL, and wanted to know if I should start a fast descent to get below the B, or if I would be able to descend through the B at a more reasonable rate.

Allentown had been slow to respond and I had to call 4 or 5 times to get initial radar contact, and didn't have much dialogue with them once I did. So I called to ask for a transfer to NY app, and they said they were working on the handoff. I did get a handoff, but was told to remain below the class B which required me to make a rather quick descent (~1000 fpm)

So I guess my question is whether it is reasonable to pester ATC for instructions that may or may not come? After all, I've been dropped without warning before, so I would at least know if they are still watching me.
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You do not need permission to leave an ATC frequency where there is no requirement to be in communications with ATC.
 
In the west, when I'm IFR at relatively low altitudes in the King Air, I sometimes will ask for the next frequency.... to store....just to have it in case I fly off radio reception.
 
roncachamp said:
You do not need permission to leave an ATC frequency where there is no requirement to be in communications with ATC.
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You also don't need permission from ATC to climb or descend just because you're on flight following. Usually they like it if you advise them of your intentions, though. And there's also the obvious exception where you're flying through certain controlled airspace (e.g., class B ) and ATC instructs you to maintain an altitude.
 
matthammer said:
You also don't need permission from ATC to climb or descend just because you're on flight following. Usually they like it if you advise them of your intentions, though. And there's also the obvious exception where you're flying through certain controlled airspace (e.g., class B ) and ATC instructs you to maintain an altitude.
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'Zackly.
 
matthammer said:
You also don't need permission from ATC to climb or descend just because you're on flight following. Usually they like it if you advise them of your intentions, though. And there's also the obvious exception where you're flying through certain controlled airspace (e.g., class B ) and ATC instructs you to maintain an altitude.
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They will sometimes request that you notify them prior to any altitude changes, however.
 
You could just terminate FF farther out, and then call up NY APP and request FF and clearance through the Class B.
 
jasc15 said:
So I guess my question is whether it is reasonable to pester ATC for instructions that may or may not come? After all, I've been dropped without warning before, so I would at least know if they are still watching me.
Click to expand...

Did Allentown Approach assign you a specific altitude? If not, you can climb or descend at will, without notifying Allentown.

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
Did Allentown Approach assign you a specific altitude? If not, you can climb or descend at will, without notifying Allentown.
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I don't think he needed to start a decent for his destination airport that soon, he only needed to descend to get under the B if he didn't get cleared.

Remember, you can always do a descending 360 to loose altitude, and get under the B that way. I've done 360's to stay outside the B when getting the old, reliable, "Standby" from ATC before entering, or going around a B.
 
Anthony said:
You could just terminate FF farther out, and then call up NY APP and request FF and clearance through the Class B.
Click to expand...

At a couple of miles a minute you would be in the Bravo in 10 minutes or so... A request to FF for entry into the Bravo will either have them make the request to NY or they dump you like a hot potato and hopefully ( should )provide the freq for you to make the radio call yourself. That will give you 9 minutes to plan what to do next...IMHO.
 
Never had a problem with Allentown approach not responding. Typically, I get immediate response from them. Even on busy days.
 
N801BH said:
At a couple of miles a minute you would be in the Bravo in 10 minutes or so... A request to FF for entry into the Bravo will either have them make the request to NY or they dump you like a hot potato and hopefully ( should )provide the freq for you to make the radio call yourself. That will give you 9 minutes to plan what to do next...IMHO.
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Sometimes they don't respond, sometimes they say standy. It depends. Like I said before, if you need to you can always buy some time with a 360 or two, and then make the decision or hear back from them.

Very rare though. Usually they just say unable to affect handoff, bye bye squawk 1200, frequency change approved, try NY APP on XXX.XX.
 
Yeah, I do it pretty often because of the way our various air spaces are structured in the bay area... you don't strictly have to tell them you're doing it, but I find it to be a nice courtesy to let the folks in NorCal or at Travis know that I am handing myself off to Concord Tower on approach. Otherwise I found that they tend to do it around the time I am about to enter downwind, which isn't super conducive to a stress-free landing.
 
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